The B2B CMO Podcast with Jon Miller and Sydney Sloan

The 5 New Imperatives for B2B CMOs with Jon Miller & Sydney Sloan

In this special episode, Sydney Sloan and Jon Miller break down the most important findings for marketing leaders from The B2B CMO Project’s new research report. The findings in this report draw on recorded interviews with more than 50 B2B CMOs at companies including Zoom, Salesforce, Nutanix, Snowflake, PagerDuty, and Sprout Social. Their goal: give CMOs the clearest possible picture of what has stopped working, what the best leaders and operators are doing differently, and exactly what to do about it. Sydney and Jon cover why the old B2B marketing playbook is broken and the five imperatives for modern marketing leaders to succeed. Episode Takeaways * Why the Old B2B Marketing Playbook is Broken: The MQL-driven, content-to-lead-nurture model worked for a generation, but the data now shows it's actively undermining marketing's credibility in the C-suite.  * Imperative 1 - Earn Your Seat by Becoming a Business Executive First: CMOs need to think of their C-Suite peers as their primary team and provide them with the voice of the customer, especially when that means surfacing problems before they’re apparent to others. * Imperative 2 - Prove Marketing’s Value in the Language of the Board: When CMOs report in marketing language, they get treated as a tactical marketing function. When reporting to the board and peers, the best CMOs lead with business outcomes first and treat marketing metrics as internal diagnostics. * Imperative 3 - Invest in Brand as a Strategic Economic Asset: Getting CFO buy-in on brand is very hard when marketers talk about awareness. Instead, connect brand strength to measurable business outcomes: lower customer acquisition cost, higher win rates, shorter sales cycles, and better pricing power. When marketers speak the language of finance, brand stops being a debate and starts being a priority. * Imperative 4 - Lead Marketing Through AI Disruption: Buyers are beginning their research, discovery, and evaluation in LLMs like ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, not just search engines. Adopt metrics like citation share and share of answer to measure how often your company and products surface in AI-generated responses, and build your content strategy around winning those placements. * Imperative 5 - Build the Organization and Capabilities for the Next Decade: Everyone is figuring out the AI-era at the same time, meaning those who actively engage with peer communities and share learnings will move faster.  Standout Quotes * “ The CMO role is too hard these days to do it alone, so let's do it together.” - Jon Miller * “ We want to look at owning the customer voice, that is my favorite part of being a CMO.” - Sydney Sloan Chapters * 00:00 Introduction & Overview of The B2B CMO Project Research Study * 06:25 Why The Classic B2B Marketing Playbook Stopped Working and How CMOs are Moving Forward * 09:39 1. The Credibility Gap is the Real problem for CMOs * 14:43 2. The Metrics Problem & How to Prove Marketing's Value in the Language of the Board  * 19:49 3. Brand is a Strategic Investment * 25:03 4. Leading Marketing Through AI Disruption * 30:46 5. Build the Marketing Organization & Capabilites for the Next Decade Mentioned in this Episode * The B2B CMO Project Research Report [https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/research]: https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/research [https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/research]  * B2B CMO Survey [https://interviews.g2.com/research/d4aa5130-d54f-4606-800d-ffb8696f71ba]: https://interviews.g2.com/research/d4aa5130-d54f-4606-800d-ffb8696f71ba [https://interviews.g2.com/research/d4aa5130-d54f-4606-800d-ffb8696f71ba]  More from The B2B CMO Project * Website: https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/ [https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/]  * Jon Miller: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/]  * Sydney Sloan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydsloan/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydsloan/]  * More Episodes: https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/podcasts [https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/podcasts]

Reframing Marketing ROI to Return on Objectives with Karl Van den Bergh

Karl Van den Bergh is the Chief Market Officer at Illumio, known as the world’s first breach containment platform (built on AI and designed for Zero Trust). Over the course of more than 25 years, Karl has held leadership roles in Marketing, Product and as a GM in Cloud, Analytics and Cybersecurity businesses, including SAP, Gigamon, Datastax, and Tibco. Karl joins Jon Miller and Sydney Sloan to share his insights on why marketing leaders need to communicate with the C-suite using the language of the board, what it means to run a marketing team like a predictable sales org, and how to get buy-in on investing in brand by tying it to Return on Objectives, not ROI. Karl also dives into how to overcome ‘The CMO Tax’ and what his team is doing to stay top of mind, both for customers and LLMs. Episode Takeaways * Earn executive trust by speaking the language of business, particularly sales, first. For example, Karl Van den Bergh leads every executive and board conversation with pipeline contribution and bookings, rather than top-of-funnel metrics, because those are the numbers the C-suite and CFO already understand and care about. Forget about impressions or MQLs; instead, anchor the marketing narrative to revenue outcomes before expanding to broader brand metrics. * Running marketing like a sales organization, with targets, over-assignment of pipeline, and a forecast, creates predictability, which earns trust with the CEO and CFO. That trust is critical for securing investment in longer-horizon brand and awareness initiatives. * Don't create a new category unless you have absolutely no choice. Category creation is extraordinarily expensive and slow, requiring years of market education before revenue follows. * Reframe success internally from ROI to "Return on Objectives" when selling brand investment. Rather than trying to tie every awareness dollar directly to bookings, Karl uses a Return on Objectives framework: define the objective (e.g., be top-of-mind when buyers enter the market), set metrics tied to that objective (web visits, content downloads from target accounts), and benchmark performance against industry standards. This makes non-pipeline investments defensible and credible to peers in the C-suite. Standout Quote * “Advice to all CMOs out there, do not create a category unless you absolutely have to. Because it is so hard.” - Karl Van den Bergh Guest Links * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karlvandenbergh/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/karlvandenbergh/]  * Illumio Website: https://www.illumio.com/ [https://www.illumio.com/]  Mentioned in this Episode * Anup Singh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anupvsingh/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/anupvsingh/]  * Andrew Rubin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewsrubin/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewsrubin/]  * Brian Gentile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-gentile-b1376/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-gentile-b1376/]  * Rick Wootten: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rickwootten/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/rickwootten/]  * Raghu Nandakumara: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raghunandakumara/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/raghunandakumara/]  * Ryan Farsai: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanfarsai/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanfarsai/]   * Profound: https://www.tryprofound.com/ [https://www.tryprofound.com/]  More from The B2B CMO Project * Website: https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/ [https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/]  * Jon Miller: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/]  * Sydney Sloan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydsloan/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydsloan/]  * More Episodes: https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/podcasts [https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/podcasts]

Nerding Out on the Neuroscience Behind Buying Decisions with Bryan Law

Bryan Law is the Chief Marketing Officer of Nerdio, the all-in-one Microsoft Cloud management platform. Bryan previously led global marketing teams at Google, Salesforce, ZoomInfo, and SentinelOne, to name just a few. He’s passionate about building distinctive, memory-building brands that translate into efficient pipeline creation, backed by data-driven decisioning and pragmatic AI adoption. Bryan joins co-hosts Jon Miller and Sydney Sloan to dig into why B2B brands need to focus on their mental availability, how synthetic AI research can speed up uncovering customer insights, and how marketing leaders can jumpstart their tenure at any new company. Episode Takeaways * CMOs who lead with business acumen, not marketing tactics, earn faster credibility with the C-suite. Bryan deliberately frames his role as a business leader who uses marketing as a tool, fluently speaking the language of revenue, pipeline, and growth targets with finance and sales before discussing campaign strategy.  *  When entering a new company as the CMO, it is critical to be very intentional about identifying who the key stakeholders internally who are going to make or break your success, and then how you can win them over quickly. * Understanding the customer’s pains, wants, and needs quickly is vital to your role as a CMO. One way to do this is by carrying out extensive customer interviews right when you join a new company. A way to speed that process up is to use synthetic AI to model your customers and uncover deeper insights. * The concept of Mental availability, which is understanding the buying triggers that cause customers to think about your category, and which brand associations fire in their minds instantly, is widely used in B2C but almost entirely ignored in B2B. Bryan uses this framework to find uncontested territory: buying situations that customers care about that no competitor owns. Marketing teams should map their category's buying triggers, assess which are already owned by competitors, and build messaging campaigns around the white space. Standout Quote * “ I always try and think about my role is first as a business leader and then secondarily as a marketer.” - Bryan Law Guest Links * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanbasdenlaw/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanbasdenlaw/]  * Nerdio Website: https://getnerdio.com/ [https://getnerdio.com/]  Mentioned in this Episode * Kim Storin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberlystorin/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberlystorin/]  * Ehrenberg-Bass Institute: https://marketingscience.info/ [https://marketingscience.info/]  More from The B2B CMO Project * Website: https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/ [https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/]  * Jon Miller: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/]  * Sydney Sloan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydsloan/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydsloan/]

Showing Up for Your Board with Tracey Newell, Author of Hers for the Taking

Tracey Newell is the Author of Hers for the Taking and has led global revenue teams, served as President of Informatica and now sits on the boards of some of the fastest-growing software companies in the world. Beyond leading major companies like Informatica, Proofpoint, Polycom, and Cisco, Tracey is now on a mission to help more women step into leadership with confidence and clarity. Tracey joins co-hosts Jon Miller and Sydney Sloan to discuss what CMOs can do to show up strategically for their boards, how to prepare yourself for a career in senior management, and why marketing leaders need to pick strategic projects that align with high-level metrics. Episode Takeaways * If you’re considering a career in corporate leadership but don’t feel ready for that, think about what experiences you would need to prepare yourself for a larger role and then start accumulating those experiences. * Despite how things may seem at times, it is absolutely possible for men and women to have both amazing careers and amazing personal lives. The key is setting time aside for both parts of your life. * Most growth-stage companies target a 50/50 revenue split between new logos and expansion, yet the installed base is dramatically easier to sell. CMOs should build dedicated programs around net retention and expansion, starting by solving the underlying data problem: knowing who your customers are, what they own, and where the whitespace lives. This is a direct contribution to top-line growth that earns marketing a strategic seat at the table. * A key to running a successful partnership motion is connecting the peer-groups across the different organizations. For example, the sales teams need to know each other and how to hand off opportunities or involve the other when an opportunity arises.  Standout Quote * “ I've always believed in quality over quantity. The quantity game is a long road to a small house.” - Tracey Newell Guest Links * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracey-newell/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracey-newell/]  * Hers for the Taking Website: https://a.co/d/03vJqSie [https://a.co/d/03vJqSie]  Mentioned in this Episode * Doug Dennerline: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougdennerline/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougdennerline/]  * Sally Shreve More from The B2B CMO Project * Website: https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/ [https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/]  * Jon Miller: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/]  * Sydney Sloan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydsloan/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydsloan/]  * More Episodes: https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/podcasts [https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/podcasts]

Building C-Suite Buy-In & Selling The Brand Story with Tricia Gellman

Special guest Tricia Gellman, CMO of Box, the Intelligent Content Platform pioneering Intelligent Content Management, joins Sydney Sloan and Jon Miller on The B2B CMO Podcast to discuss the strategic role of the modern CMO. Tricia is a seasoned marketing leader with stints as Chief Marketing Officer at major SaaS companies such as Drift, Checker, and Salesforce Canada. Part of what sets Tricia apart as one of the top CMOs is her unique knack for category creation and steadfast commitment to fostering Go-To-Market alignment. In this episode, Tricia unpacks how to get the C-suite onboard to invest in building awareness, why partnership motion can unlock outsized growth, and how to build an operating rhythm between marketing and sales that connects brand storytelling all the way through to closed revenue. Episode Takeaways * Own the story end-to-end. Strategic CMOs don't just craft cute messaging, they need to know the story, understand how to sell that story, and connect that story through thought leadership all the way down to the customer conversation and the sales motion that carries it through. * When entering a new category like AI, finding a story that maps to a real buyer need is critical. If nobody wakes up asking for your category name, you're pushing uphill. * Start small to build conviction. If your CFO or board won't greenlight a big awareness bet, run a small test, show the ROI, and use that proof point to advocate for the larger investment. * Build your Go-To-Market on shared data. Marketing and sales must use the same dashboards and have a shared understanding of what success looks like. If you're arguing from different reports, you'll waste time pointing fingers instead of driving revenue. * Leverage partner ecosystems for outsized reach. Box's model-agnostic AI strategy lets them co-launch with every major LLM and ISV partner, multiplying their awareness without multiplying their spend. * Match your superpower to the role. Before accepting a CMO position, assess whether the company's needs align with what you do best, and whether the leadership team values marketing as strategic. * Set pipeline council cadence to your deal cycle. Don't meet weekly if there's not enough change to discuss. For enterprise, biweekly is often the right rhythm. Standout Quote * " You can really build whatever business you want, if you think strategically about the end game." - Tricia Gellman Guest Links * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gellmansfmarketing/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gellmansfmarketing/]  * Box Website: https://www.box.com/home [https://www.box.com/home]  Mentioned in This Episode * Aaron Levie — CEO, Box * Chuck Geschke & John Warnock — Co-founders, Adobe * Guy Kawasaki — Former Apple Evangelist * Kraig Swensrud— Founder, Qualified * Amanda Kahlow (Natividad) — Founder, 6sense / OneMind More from The B2B CMO Project * Website: https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/ [https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/]  * Jon Miller: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/]  * Sydney Sloan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydsloan/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydsloan/]  * More Episodes: https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/podcasts [https://www.b2bcmoproject.com/podcasts]