The Piar Podcast - Interviews with Global PR & Comms leaders

Torod B. Neptune: Unlearn The Habits That Hold Communications Leaders Back

Unlearn the Habits That Hold Communications Leaders Back Communications leaders used to see themselves as the conscience of their organizations. You don't hear that as much anymore. What happened? Is it a failure of individual courage, or did something structural change about the role that made conscience a liability? In this episode of The Piar Podcast, host Tan Sukhera sits down with Torod Neptune, a former CCO with more than 25 years of executive experience across Medtronic, Lenovo, Verizon, Bank of America, and major global agencies where he advised brands like Nike, MasterCard, and Delta. Named one of the most influential executives in corporate America by Savoy magazine and inducted into the North Carolina Media and Journalism Hall of Fame, Torod now teaches communications management and strategic leadership at UNC Hussman, examining the profession from outside of the machine with the freedom to say exactly what he thinks. What You'll Learn: Pragmatism Has a Consequence - The instinct to avoid the limelight, to not be the tallest blade of grass, makes strategic sense. But there's a cost. If communicators still believe their most significant value is being the conscience of their organizations, then pulling back from that role under pressure doesn't just hurt the publics they serve. It erodes the long-term justification for having a CCO in leadership circles at all. Hunches Can Be Dangerous - Communications professionals have grown up relying on their hunches. After decades, those instincts are often sharp. But hunches also close you off to thinking about problems differently. Torod describes a specific scenario where every data point said to stay silent, but judgment said to show up as a human organization, be humble, and trust that the stakeholders who matter would give them the benefit of the doubt. The data was wrong. The judgment held. The Acceptance of a Sharp Pointy Perspective - How do you know you've moved beyond being a press release department? When your voice on a business issue is just as credible as the P&L owner's. When you offer an uninvited perspective on something outside the traditional communications box and the room not only tolerates it but receives it. That acceptance is the real signal. AI Eliminated a Layer, Not Just Tasks - The entry-level skill set that used to take three to five years to build has been largely removed by AI. That layer represented roughly 85 percent of what academia still teaches. What remains is strategic thinking, critical reasoning, foundational business acumen, and the ability to synthesize complex issues into compelling strategic ideas that solve business problems. The 2020 syllabus is training people for jobs that will not exist.

Katherine Neebe: Decision Making For Rooms Where Everyone Disagrees

Decision Making For Rooms Where Everyone Disagrees Communicators are constantly put in the center of uncertainty. They find themselves in rooms where people disagree, even when they're on the same team. So what separates the leaders who navigate those rooms successfully from those who leave with nothing resolved? In this episode of The Piar Podcast, host Tan Sukhera sits down with Katherine Neebe, SVP and Chief Communications Officer at Duke Energy, one of America's largest utilities. Before stepping into that role, Katherine spent time at Walmart leading strategic sustainability initiatives and managed a $97 million partnership between Coca-Cola and the World Wildlife Fund across more than 45 countries. Her move from Chief Sustainability Officer to CCO gives her a rare vantage point on what transfers between the two disciplines and what doesn't. What You'll Learn: The Biggest Adjustment Is Pace, Not Skill - Sustainability deals with systemic problems 100 years in the making. Communications deals with things that happened three minutes ago. The cadence is completely different. But the core strategic muscle, bringing the external world inside to inform better decisions, is identical across both roles. The craft of communications, the precision, the range of tools, the preparation, was the real discovery. Optimize the System, Don't Compromise - Katherine orients around two principles for high-disagreement rooms: reasonable people can disagree, and instead of looking for trade-offs, look for how to optimize the system. Compromise puts you in a "less" mindset. Optimization puts you in a "maximum" mindset. The difference shapes every outcome. Experiential Storytelling Is the Unlock - At WWF, they called it walking in each other's shoes. At Walmart, they called it "what you cook." At Duke Energy, they don't call it anything, but the principle is the same: when stakeholders physically experience the world through someone else's reality, the conversation shifts from us-versus-them to shared problem solving. Communications is the lever that scales that experience when you can't take everyone into the field. Transparency Has Limits That Matter - 86% of leaders believe more transparency produces more trust, but the research shows it's significantly more complicated. Katherine distinguishes between answering the question people are actually asking versus the polite version, and sharing relevant, usable, honest information versus dumping everything and hoping people find the kernel of truth. Companies that only share good news lose credibility. Being honest about complexity, clear about constraints, and transparent enough that people trust you even when they disagree is the real target. The Holy Grail of Measurement Remains Unsolved - Katherine frames measurement in three buckets: input (dollars spent, campaigns launched), output (impressions, reach, coverage), and impact (did anything actually change?). Impact is the hardest and most important, but it's not a fixed destination. The strongest internal case pairs outputs with listening tools, polling, and stakeholder research, then shows discipline, consistency, and real-time learning. Communications is both a growth lever and an investment in organizational resilience. You can't wait for crisis to realize you should have invested earlier. Crisis Readiness Is Muscle Memory - Duke Energy runs tabletop exercises repeatedly, not once. Calm is contagious. When people know their roles instinctively and the culture in the room supports honest problem-solving, the organization shows up to crisis with credibility under pressure. After every significant event, they run what Katherine calls COEs, sometimes celebrations of excellence, sometimes corrections of error, always followed by real action.

Tabita Andersson: The Art Of The Possible For Chief Communications Officers

The Art of the Possible: Why More CCOs Aren't at the Table Yet The CCO role is more vital than ever. CEOs understand the importance of communications. The world is more volatile. Stakeholders are multiplying. Yet the number of executives with the formal title of Chief Communications Officer remains remarkably small. Why? And what can senior communications leaders do about it? In this episode of The Piar Podcast, host Tan Sukhera sits down with Tabita Andersson, author of "Chief Communications Officers at Work" and a senior communications leader with over 25 years of experience across agencies, in-house teams, and freelance consulting in the B2B industry. Tabita has personally interviewed CCOs from large global organizations, and her book unpacks what she calls "the art of the possible" for communications professionals who want to reach the C-suite. What You'll Learn: Business Acumen Is Non-Negotiable - Every CCO Tabita interviewed ranked business acumen at the top of required competencies. Communications professionals are skilled at writing, presenting, and press releases. But many reach senior positions only to realize they lack commercial and management understanding. The CCOs in her book gained it different ways: some went back to school, others rotated across functions, one came from a sales and marketing background before entering communications. There's no single path, but there's no skipping this step either. You Already Have the Bird's Eye View - CCOs are often the only people in an organization, aside from the CEO, who work across every function and stakeholder group. This positioning is a competitive advantage. It means communications can connect dots that others miss, bring critical thinking to strategic planning, and spot gaps, blind spots, and blockers before decisions are locked in. The key is getting invited to the table early, not after decisions are made. Ordering Chaos - Strategic communications means bringing systems, processes, and plans to what you do. But you can't be overly prescriptive about everything. Tabita describes it as balancing frameworks with flexibility. Crisis scenario planning, tabletop exercises, and "what if" workshops train a muscle. The more you train it, the stronger it gets when you actually need it. Build Trust Before the Crisis Hits - One CEO told Tabita: build trust early, so when something happens, you can skip the niceties and go straight into action. CCOs work as trusted advisors and confidants, handling sensitive information constantly. That's why CEO departures often correlate with CCO departures. The relationship is that tightly coupled. The Pincer Movement - Tabita is passionate about opening more CCO roles. But it won't happen automatically. It requires dual action: communications leaders stepping forward, building relationships with C-level executives, and demonstrating value beyond media relations and internal comms. And it requires CEOs and other C-suite leaders opening their minds to what a strong communications leader can contribute to strategy, not just execution. The profession has come a long way in 10-15 years. There weren't many CCOs to count back then. But there's still distance to cover before the role reaches parity with positions like CMO. For senior communications leaders who see themselves reaching that level, this episode offers both the encouragement and the reality check you need.

Keith Berman: The Skills & Mindset Needed To Grow In Communications

How do you grow from tactical executor to strategic advisor in communications? What skills separate those who stagnate from those who advance? In this episode of The Piar Podcast, host Tan Sukhera sits down with Keith Berman—a no-nonsense internal and executive communications professional whose career spans companies from 20-person startups to Fortune 10 businesses with 250,000 employees—to explore the skills and mindset needed to grow in this profession. Keith's perspective is refreshingly direct: "I just say what's on my mind and unfortunately sometimes the filter just magically goes poof." His career across telecommunications, entertainment, B2B SaaS, healthcare, industrial, food and beverage, medtech, and insurance gives him a unique vantage point on what drives career advancement. What You'll Learn: Think Like a Central Nervous System – Keith's framework for understanding strategic value: you're not just sending messages, you're translating executive strategy into actionable steps for every level. "The executive team is the brain. Communications carries signals through the system. But critically, the system is bidirectional. You need to carry signals back—speak truth to power when something isn't working." Psychology Is Your Superpower – Keith's undergraduate psychology degree has been instrumental in his growth. "You've got to know how people will think when they hear or read something. People take action based on emotional response. We're not entirely logical. If you're really good at your job, you create the emotional connection that drives the desired action." Understanding cognitive biases and behavioral patterns becomes a competitive advantage. Learn How the Business Actually Works – Keith describes going directly to CFOs to ask them to teach him about the business. "Can you teach me what it means to calculate EBITDA? They've been appreciative because it shows curiosity. Now I can walk into conversations more well-rounded and avoid proposing something that will destroy our revenue stream." Business acumen isn't optional for growth—it's the foundation of strategic credibility. Move Beyond the Mechanism – Too many people see communications as just execution—send the email, post on the intranet. "We do so much more in strategy and translation. External comms keeps an eye on the market. Internal comms surfaces insights from across the organization. If you want to grow, demonstrate that strategic value, not just execute tasks." Navigate AI Thoughtfully – Keith warns about AI's impact on career pathways. "AI takes in everything, averages it to the middle, and produces content that's palatable for everyone. That doesn't stand out. More concerning: if you remove entry-level grunt work and outsource it to AI, you destroy the lower rungs of the career ladder. How will people learn why certain communications work? That's how you grow to the manager level." The Growth Mindset – Curiosity, willingness to learn business fundamentals, understanding psychology, thinking strategically rather than tactically, and maintaining the human elements AI cannot replicate—these are the differentiators for advancement. Whether you're early in your communications career or looking to make the jump from manager to strategic leader, Keith's insights offer a practical blueprint for growth in this profession.

Frank Buckler: How The PR & Comms Holy Grail Is Actually A Math Problem

"Many may simply not want to learn the truth of what's happening in the PR and comms world." With that warning, host Tan Sukhera opens one of the most consequential conversations in The Piar Podcast series—a deep dive into why correlation is not causation, and how causal AI is solving the measurement problem that has plagued PR and communications for decades. Dr. Frank Buckler is an author, researcher, and CEO of SUPRA whose work is built on a simple idea: growth comes from understanding what truly drives success, not from copying generic best practices. With a background spanning marketing, engineering, management consulting, and corporate leadership, he's helped some of the world's largest organizations solve problems that big agencies and big consulting couldn't. He began researching AI in 1994, driven by one question: why do people buy? His PhD work developed a causal AI methodology that remains SUPRA's foundation today—evidence first, informed by knowledge, not assumption. What You'll Learn: Why Causality Matters – In business, PR, and communications, we're driving actions. Actions that work build on truth—not facts, but the hidden mechanisms between action and outcomes. Frank uses powerful analogies: scanning a computer's circuit board shows where electrons flow, but not what the processor does. Scanning the brain shows activity, but not how thinking works. "You cannot measure causality. You can only infer it." The Complexity Problem – Technology is complicated but not complex. Complex problems have many drivers that interact unpredictably, with effects that emerge at unknown times. Social science lags behind technology precisely because human behavior is exponentially more complex than engineering problems. The Lazy Why Trap – Business leaders invest enormous sums mapping business performance but weirdly accept the first answer to "why" things happen. As Rory Sutherland calls it, "the lazy why." Frank shares devastating examples of spurious correlations that cost companies millions. The Lottery Company Revelation – Everyone believed older people were the target audience because older people play more lottery. Causal AI revealed the opposite: younger people are more likely to play when all else is equal. The real drivers are habituation and winning experiences that accumulate over time. Time correlates with age, but age doesn't cause lottery playing. The same pattern appeared with charitable donations. Marketing Mix Modeling Failures – Traditional models create false confidence by showing correlations between spending and sales. But they miss the mechanics. Without understanding true causality, companies optimize for the wrong things. Counterfactual Reasoning – Causal AI builds an "inner mechanics machine" of PR and communications. Once built, you can simulate scenarios that never happened in reality—war gaming future outcomes, predicting impacts of investment changes, testing campaign components before launch. Like a weather forecaster narrowing a hurricane's path, causal AI constrains possibilities based on true mechanisms. The Kitchen Sink Confession – Tan admits his own past failures: "I used to layer earned media coverage on top of sales data, add HR data, business performance data, hoping to prove causation. But I was just creating spurious correlation. There's a time lag to impact. Unless I test it, I wouldn't know it." What This Means for PR Leaders – The holy grail of PR measurement is being found. This changes everything: career pathing, strategic counsel, trust and confidence in the boardroom. As execution gets relegated to AI, human leaders must develop decision-making, critical thinking, and problem-solving skills to interpret results, communicate findings, and inspire action.