The Talk Show With John Gruber

Patrick McGee joins the show to discuss his must-read new book, Apple in China -- one of the best books about Apple anyone has ever written. Sponsored by: * Factor [https://factormeals.com/talkshow50off]: Healthy eating, made easy. Get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. * Notion [https://notion.com/talkshow]: Your notes, docs, and projects in one space. * Squarespace [https://squarespace.com/talkshow]: Save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code talkshow. Transcripts: Unofficial but surprisingly good [http://podsearch.david-smith.org/shows/11]. Links: * “Apple in China [https://bookshop.org/a/56320/9781668053379]”, Patrick’s spectacular new book. * Patrick on The Daily Show With Jon Stewart [https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/05/22/mcgee-daily-show]. * Excerpt from the book in the Sunday Times of London [https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/technology/article/how-apple-helped-china-become-americas-biggest-tech-rival-8f83tttv5]. This episode of The Talk Show was edited by Caleb Sexton.

Stephen Hackett, proprietor of 512 Pixels and co-founder of Relay [https://www.relay.fm/] (purveyor of many fine podcasts), joins the show. Topics include: IO (or if you will, io), the new joint venture of OpenAI and Jony Ive’s LoveFrom; the sheer fantasy of “Made in America” iPhones; and Fortnite’s return to the US App Store. Sponsored by: * WorkOS [https://workos.com/]: The modern identity platform for B2B SaaS — free up to 1 million monthly active users. * BetterHelp [https://betterhelp.com/talkshow]: Give online therapy a try at BetterHelp and get on your way to being your best self. * Squarespace [https://squarespace.com/talkshow]: Save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code talkshow. Transcripts: Unofficial but surprisingly good [http://podsearch.david-smith.org/shows/11]. Links: * Apple in China [https://bookshop.org/a/56320/9781668053379], Patrick’s spectacular new book. * Patrick on The Daily Show With Jon Stewart [https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/05/22/mcgee-daily-show]. * Excerpt from the book in the Sunday Times of London [https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/technology/article/how-apple-helped-china-become-americas-biggest-tech-rival-8f83tttv5]. * Millions, Billions, Zillions [https://www.amazon.com/Millions-Billions-Zillions-Defending-Yourself/dp/0691182779/?tag=df-amzn-20], Brian Kernighan’s fun little book on practical day-to-day math. This episode of The Talk Show was edited by Caleb Sexton.

Craig Mod returns to the show to discuss his splendid new book, Things Become Other Things. Other topics include creating with AI tools (including programming), social media permanence vs. ephemerality, and more. Sponsored by: * Dekáf Coffee Roasters [https://dekaf.com/df]: You won’t believe it’s decaf. That’s the point. 30% off with code: DF. * Squarespace [https://squarespace.com/talkshow]: Make your next move. Use code talkshow for 10% off your first order. * Notion [https://www.notion.com/]: Try the powerful, easy-to-use Notion AI today. * WorkOS [https://workos.com/]: The modern identity platform for B2B SaaS — free up to 1 million monthly active users. Transcripts: Unofficial but surprisingly good [http://podsearch.david-smith.org/shows/11]. Links: * “Things Become Other Things”, Craig’s new book from Random House (!): * Craig’s web page for the book [https://craigmod.com/books/things_become_other_things/] — including tour dates. * Random House’s page for the book [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/751123/things-become-other-things-by-craig-mod/]. * Purchase links: * Amazon [https://amzn.to/3z1CjSt] * Bookshop.org [https://bookshop.org/p/books/things-become-other-things-a-memoir-craig-mod/21707235?ean=9780593732540] * Apple Books [https://books.apple.com/us/book/things-become-other-things/id6618121918] * Barnes & Noble [https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/things-become-other-things-craig-mod/1146138224?ean=9780593732540] * Craig’s home page [https://craigmod.com/]. * The Good Place [https://craigmod.com/roden/102/#the-good-place] — Craig’s write-up on designing and building (with Claude Code) his own custom Twitter-like ephemeral social network for members of his (fun, excellent) Special Projects website. * Ulysses [https://ulysses.app/] — Craig’s writing app of choice. This episode of The Talk Show was edited by Caleb Sexton.

Special guest Glenn Fleishman returns to the show for episode 420 on 4/20, but everyone’s sober, I swear. Topics include Trump’s dumb tariffs and Glenn’s smart new edition of his book Six Centuries of Type & Printing. Sponsored by: * Squarespace [https://squarespace.com/talkshow]: Make your next move. Use code talkshow for 10% off your first order. * Notion [https://www.notion.com/]: Try the powerful, easy-to-use Notion AI today. * BetterHelp [https://betterhelp.com/talkshow]: Give online therapy a try at BetterHelp and get on your way to being your best self. * Clic for Sonos [https://clic.dance/talkshow]: No lag. No hassle. Just Clic. Transcripts: Unofficial but surprisingly good [http://podsearch.david-smith.org/shows/11]. Links: * Pre-order “Six Centuries of Type & Printing: New Edition” [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/glennf/six-centuries-of-type-and-printing]. * My link to Glenn’s Kickstarter page [https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/04/16/six-centuries-of-type-and-printing]. * “.BLUE proposes to create an Internet space in which businesses, organizations and individuals can create an Internet identity tied to the color and the concept of blue.” [https://icannwiki.org/.blue]. * XKCD comic on open source dependencies [https://xkcd.com/2347/]. * Pathmark’s “No Frills” Brand [https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=pathmark+no+frills+brand&ia=images&iax=images]. This episode of The Talk Show was edited by Caleb Sexton.

MG Siegler returns to the show to talk about the drama surrounding Siri and Apple Intelligence. Sponsored by: * WorkOS [https://workos.com/]: The modern identity platform for B2B SaaS — free up to 1 million monthly active users. Check out their latest features from Launch Week [https://workos.com/launch-week/?utm_source=daringfireball&utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=q12025]. * BetterHelp [https://betterhelp.com/talkshow]: Give online therapy a try at BetterHelp and get on your way to being your best self. * OpenCase [https://theopencase.com/discount/TALKSHOW]: MagSafe perfected that's thinner, lighter, and more secure. Save 10% with code TALKSHOW. Unofficial but surprisingly good transcripts [http://podsearch.david-smith.org/shows/11]. Links: * Daring Fireball posts: * Apple Is Delaying the ‘More Personalized Siri’ Apple Intelligence Features [https://daringfireball.net/2025/03/apple_is_delaying_the_more_personalized_siri_apple_intelligence_features] * Something Is Rotten in the State of Cupertino [https://daringfireball.net/2025/03/something_is_rotten_in_the_state_of_cupertino] * Gurman: Tim Cook Has Put Mike Rockwell in Charge of Siri, Reporting to Craig Federighi [https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/03/20/gurman-rockwell-siri] * A Postscript on the Singular Nature of Mark Gurman’s Reporting [https://daringfireball.net/2025/03/a_postscript_on_the_singular_nature_of_mark_gurmans_reporting] * Posts from MG at Spyglass [https://spyglass.org/], which you should subscribe to: * Apple Joins the Navy [https://spyglass.org/apple-is-the-navy/] * Siri’s Quixotic Swim to Hawaii [https://spyglass.org/siri-apple-ai-trouble/] * The Siri Shuffle [https://spyglass.org/siri-shakeup/] * MG’s March 2011 scoop at TechCrunch, “Legends of the Fall, Apple Style [https://techcrunch.com/2011/03/28/apples-big-fall/]”, which correctly called the iPhone 4S moving from an annual June ship date to the fall (where it’s remained ever since), and the first suggestion that “Siri”, a startup Apple had acquired the year before, would be a big part of iOS 5. * AI labs that might, maybe, be acquisition targets for Apple: * Anthropic (Claude) [https://claude.ai/] * Perplexity [https://www.perplexity.ai/] * Mistral [https://mistral.ai/] * Safe Superintelligence Inc. [https://ssi.inc/] (easily the best / most confident website of the bunch) * Thinking Machines [https://thinkingmachines.ai/] (their website wishes it were SSI’s) * Steve Jobs, taking Q&A at WWDC 1997 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeqPrUmVz-o]: “You’ve got to start with the customer experience and work backwards to the technology. You can’t start with the technology and try to figure out where you’re going to try and sell it.” This episode of The Talk Show was edited by Caleb Sexton.