Two by Two

Are HUL's best days behind it?

What happened to the company that once understood India better than anyone else?  For decades Hindustan Unilever has dominated kitchen pantries and bathroom cabinets across the country: Surf Excel in the laundry, Brooke Bond in the kitchen, Clinic Plus in the bathroom.  It was the undisputed gold standard of brand building in this country.  Well, until it wasn’t.  Case in point: a couple of weeks ago, a journalist shared a chart from an HSBC report on social media.The chart listed some of HUL's biggest brands — Ponds, Lux, Rin, Lifebuoy, Kissan, Surf, Glow & Lovely, Vim, Bru — and showed where each of them stood ten years ago versus today. Turns out, most of them have barely grown, if at all. Something has shifted at the company that was once India's consumption barometer. The brands that generate genuine excitement today aren't HUL brands. More often than not, they are scrappy D2C upstarts that, on paper, shouldn't stand a chance against a behemoth like HUL. In the latest episode of Two By Two, we try to answer one simple question: Are HUL's best days behind it? Two By Two hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rahel Philipose are joined by Seetharaman G, Deputy Editor at The Ken and Sandeep Nair, co-founder of marketing consultancy firm, David and Who. Both of them see this story play out in opposite ways. And that's where it gets interesting.  Tune in. Read more: - Is HUL still the envy of the FMCG world? [https://the-ken.com/tradetricks/is-hul-still-the-envy-of-the-fmcg-world/] ______ This episode was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

Can NPCI's BHIM take on the giants it created?

"Of course BHIM is giving crazy cashbacks. That's where I pay my bills." That's not a BHIM fan but a product head at a competing UPI app. After demonetisation hit in 2016, India desperately needed a way to go cashless overnight. UPI existed but barely anyone was using it. Banks were dragging their feet and private players were too small and too few. So, NPCI (National Payments Corporation of India) built an entire payments app in weeks and put the Prime Minister behind it. BHIM clocked 10 million downloads in just 10 days.  But just as quietly, NPCI put it to sleep and the private players took the bait. Fast forward to today, PhonePe and Google Pay between them own over 80% of all UPI transactions. Two American-backed companies are winning on the very road NPCI laid, while the architect has 0.8% market share on its own railway. So BHIM is back. With MS Dhoni as brand ambassador, cashbacks flying left, right and centre and a stated goal of hitting 5% market share.  But can a government app out-app the giants it created? And why is it back and why now? Rahel Philipose and Praveen Gopal Krishnan sit down with Arundhati Ramanathan [https://www.linkedin.com/in/arundhati-ramanathan-3ba24810/], deputy editor at The Ken who wrote the original BHIM story in 2017, and Abhishek Madan [https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhishekjmadan/], co-founder of Alt Inc and former VP of product at Paytm, to find out. Read more: - The unlikely story of BHIM, the upsetter of plans [https://the-ken.com/story/unlikely-story-of-bhim/?searchTerm=bhim%20the%20upsetter%20of%20plans&utm_source=search&utm_medium=page] by Arundhati Ramanathan (25 January 2017) - NPCI resurrects its own UPI payments app dreams with Bhim [https://the-ken.com/kaching/npci-resurrects-its-own-upi-payments-app-dreams-with-bhim/?searchTerm=bhim%20the%20upsetter%20of%20plans&utm_source=search&utm_medium=page] by Arundhati Ramanathan (19 March 2026) ______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

19 years on, is IPL still too big to fail? Sharda Ugra answers

"This is our Frankenstein. We made it. And now it's left the room."  A cricketer said this about the IPL and our guest, Sharda Ugra, India's most respected cricket journalist with thirty years of covering the game, brought it to our studio. And honestly, we couldn't think of a better way to open this episode. Last week, RCB and Rajasthan Royals sold for nearly $3 billion combined. With private equity in the building, it looks like the IPL has never looked bigger, richer or more untouchable. But something is off. The broadcaster paid $6 billion for rights and is bleeding $2 billion. On the other hand, the media rights that fund 80% of every franchise's revenue are projected to flatline and the most perfect advertiser IPL ever had, real money gaming, just got banned. So we did what any sensible person would do and called Sharda. In what was honestly one of the most electric studio sessions we've had on Two by Two, Sharda brought 18 years of institutional memory while Praveen Gopal Krishnan brought the business lens and Rahel Philipose asked every question you'd want to ask if you had Sharda across from you for 90 minutes. The IPL cannot fail. But can it figure out how to succeed? That's what this episode is really about. Read more: - Sharda's 2008 India Today piece titled 'Changing the rules' [https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/sport/story/20080211-changing-the-rules-735310-2008-01-31]. - Sumit Chakraborty's piece in The Ken titled 'What private equity sees in IPL...' [https://the-ken.com/the-collection/what-private-equity-sees-in-ipl/?searchTerm=What%20private%20equity%20sees%20in%20IPL%E2%80%A6&utm_source=search&utm_medium=page]. ______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

Rapido broke the Uber-Ola duopoly. Can it now break the Swiggy-Zomato one?

Last week, Rapido launched Ownly, its zero commission food delivery app and went straight for Swiggy and Zomato's throat. This is the same company that dismantled the Uber-Ola duopoly with just a simpler model, cheaper rides, and a very different idea of what India actually needs. Their weapon this time is zero commission. They're betting on restaurants that are fed up, customers who want cheaper food, and a rider fleet that's already in place. So we got Kunal Khattar [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kkhattar/], the investor who backed Rapido from day one and made 88x on that bet to break down whether lightning can strike twice. We also have Gautam Balijepalli [https://www.linkedin.com/in/balli/], who runs one of the largest cloud kitchen operations in India and tells us what it looks like from the restaurant side. Along with our guests, Rahel Philipose and Praveen Gopal Krishnan discuss, can Rapido steal a bite from Swiggy and Zomato? Or is food delivery a completely different beast? _________ This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mix and mastered by Rajiv CN. If you liked this episode, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com [twobytwo@the-ken.com].

Healthify swallowed its disruptors. But can it digest them?

Most businesses die quietly. They miss a wave, lose relevance and fade out. Healthify nearly got hit by two in quick succession. First, AI that could do what took the company years to build. Then, a drug which meant you didn't need the discipline anymore. So Rahel Philipose and Praveen Gopal Krishnan asked Tushar Vashisht [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tusharvashisht/], Healthify's co-founder and CEO, the uncomfortable question directly: if anyone can build an AI coach and a drug can kill your appetite, what exactly are you selling? This episode is really about three things most people don't know.  One, why people who take Ozempic without a lifestyle program gain almost all the weight back within a year.  Two, what actually happens to a platform business when AI replaces one entire side of it.  And three, why Tushar believes his most dangerous competitor hasn't been founded yet. We were also joined by Professor R Srinivasan [https://www.linkedin.com/in/srini108/] from IIM Bangalore, who had a very different read on whether Healthify's bet is genius or cope. ______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.