We've Got To Talk

How Postpartum Medicaid Went From 60 Days to a Year in Wisconsin

Fourteen Wisconsinites from opposite sides of the abortion debate sat down together for a three-day Builders Movement Citizen Solutions session on abortion and family wellbeing. This wasn’t a panel or a debate for show. It was a practical, structured process with trained facilitators and a clear framework, designed to help people hear each other properly and figure out what could actually change in real life, not just online. What they landed on was surprisingly concrete: extending Medicaid postpartum coverage in Wisconsin from 60 days to a full year. In March 2026, the policy passed almost unanimously, and Governor Tony Evers signed it into law. This means more moms getting treatment for postpartum depression, more women getting care when something goes wrong after birth, and more families supported during the months when everything is raw, expensive, and exhausting. But the story behind that win is not tidy. One participant, Ali (a progressive Democrat and elected official in Madison), admitted she walked in suspicious, worried it would be conflict-as-entertainment. Kai, an independent who describes herself as a “world citizen,” trusted the referral and believed the process could work. Kateri, a Catholic who prefers “consistent life ethic,” feared being flattened into a stereotype, and she didn’t sugar-coat how hard it was to feel understood in a room full of strangers on a topic this loaded. This is the part we don’t talk about enough: real dialogue is uncomfortable, and “common ground” doesn’t magically appear because everyone’s being polite. It takes time, relationship, and a willingness to stay in the room when it gets tense. Still, this group proved something important, that even when people can’t agree on everything, they can sometimes agree on what families need, and push through the politics to get a real policy solution across the line. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:31 Builders Movement Intro 01:30 Meet The Participants 03:52 Ali Joins With Skepticism 05:47 Kai On Trust And Dialogue 07:21 Three Day Solution Session 11:12 Trauma And Finding Empathy 13:58 Relationship Building Debate 24:37 Men In The Room 25:59 Choosing Medicaid Extension 27:22 Wraparound Support Systems 30:12 Partisan Pushback and Perseverance 33:25 Backlash and Unfinished Work 36:08 Good for the Soul Picks RESOURCES MENTIONED: Builders Movement: https://buildersmovement.org/ [https://buildersmovement.org/] Citizen Solutions Wisconsin: http://citizensolutions.us/citizensolutions/wi [http://citizensolutions.us/citizensolutions/wi] GOOD FOR THE SOUL: Ali’s: My Friends by Friedrich Bachman https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/217163697-my-friends Kateri’s - East of Eden by John Steinbeck https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4406.East_of_Eden [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4406.East_of_Eden] Kai’s - Hammersmith Odeon Concerts https://www.concertarchives.org/venues/hammersmith-odeon Our Website: * https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ [https://www.wevegottotalk.com/] LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ [https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/] On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk [https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk] On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701] On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 [https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2] How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ [https://nicolefonarow.com/] How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/ [https://dibledough.com/]

Builders, Not Dividers: Voting for Character Over Party

In a world that rewards outrage, it can feel safer to avoid politics, religion, and money altogether. But the silence doesn’t fix anything, it just pushes the tension into Facebook fights, family dinners, and comment sections where people forget there’s a real human on the other side. In this conversation with Stacy Blakeley, Executive Director of the Builders Movement, we talk about how “us vs them” thinking became normal, and why it’s keeping the thoughtful majority stuck on the sidelines. The Builders Movement is a citizen-first movement built to push back on the outrage industrial complex and rebuild civil dialogue in real life. Stacy explains why Builders isn’t a think tank with an agenda, it’s a movement that starts by listening, polling, and meeting people where they are, then creating guardrails so conversations don’t spiral into “everything is broken.” The goal is practical: get citizens back in the driver’s seat, and build solutions from common ground without pretending differences don’t exist. We also dig into Citizen Solutions, the Builders program that brings a carefully selected group of everyday people across race, income, and politics into a two-day, facilitated process to practice good conflict and find actionable policy solutions. Stacy shares what this looked like in Tennessee (including the documentary Tennessee 11) and in Wisconsin, where citizens helped drive legislation to extend postpartum Medicaid coverage, proof that the system can move when regular people stay in it long enough. Finally, we talk about the Builders mindset and the four C’s: curiosity, creativity, courage, and compassion. We unpack why people are often kinder in person than online, how algorithms fuel tribalism, and why the real problem isn’t “the other side,” it’s an incentive system that rewards extremes. If you’re tired of the circus and wondering what you can actually do, this is your reminder: small groups change the world, and it starts with staying human. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Friends Across Politics: Liberal vs Conservative civil discourse 01:08 What Is the Builders Movement? Ending “us vs them” political division 02:53 Fighting Outrage Culture: social media algorithms and the outrage economy 04:20 Citizen Solutions Explained: bipartisan dialogue that leads to real policy 05:26 Tennessee 11: guns, polarization, and finding common ground 08:11 Wisconsin Win: postpartum Medicaid extension (citizen-led legislation) 10:50 Texas Healthcare Solutions: affordability, access, and practical reform 13:29 Local vs National Impact: civic engagement that scales from communities 19:38 Builders Mindset: the Four C’s (curiosity, creativity, courage, compassion) 23:27 Rewarding Builders in Politics: voting for character over party 29:37 Builders Index + C4: rating candidates as Builder vs Divider 32:51 Voting Beyond Party: independents, open-minded voters, and reform 35:11 Broken Incentives: donors, PACs, lobbying power, and extremism 36:01 Citizen Solutions Hope: why everyday citizens can still change the system RESOURCES MENTIONED: Builders Movement: https://buildersmovement.org/ [https://buildersmovement.org/] Tennessee 11 Documentary Trailer: https://youtu.be/p-drQKzz2q0?si=ulCjPJeR5xHXtXLl [https://youtu.be/p-drQKzz2q0?si=ulCjPJeR5xHXtXLl] Bridge Grades: https://www.bridgegrades.org/ [https://www.bridgegrades.org/] Builders Texas Primary Campaign- Turn out or rollover: https://youtu.be/va4dmwxtqXE?si=JqNGa5KdokVFV9yh [https://youtu.be/va4dmwxtqXE?si=JqNGa5KdokVFV9yh] Ben Sasse 60 Minutes: https://youtu.be/dDveT8OesWA?si=-gfjZB6j7RHA-kn0 [https://youtu.be/dDveT8OesWA?si=-gfjZB6j7RHA-kn0] Political Integrity Substack: https://politicalintegrity.us/ [https://politicalintegrity.us/] Good for the Soul: Raye “Joy”: https://youtu.be/taHYtEGxLnw?si=NpLgzbEJTMapPfMU [https://youtu.be/taHYtEGxLnw?si=NpLgzbEJTMapPfMU] and the live performance: https://youtu.be/2scS3s_I050?si=bkp9PLF9Mz6AilmR [https://youtu.be/2scS3s_I050?si=bkp9PLF9Mz6AilmR] Our Website: * https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ [https://www.wevegottotalk.com/] LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ [https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/] On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk [https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk] On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701] On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 [https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2] How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ [https://nicolefonarow.com/] How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/ [https://dibledough.com/]

“Us vs Them” Has Taken Over American Politics

Politics has started to feel like a loyalty test, not a conversation. Say one thing that is not perfectly on script for your “side” and people act like you have betrayed the whole team. The problem is not that we disagree. The problem is that we have built a culture where curiosity looks weak, changing your mind feels dangerous, and being loud gets rewarded. A lot of the nastiness is being fuelled by the “our side versus their side” mindset. Headlines get treated like weapons. People post for points, not understanding. Social media makes it easy to react to a clip, assume the worst, and decide you already know what kind of person someone is. In real life, when you are face to face, it is harder to hate someone you actually know. Labels do not help either. “Liberal.” “Conservative.” “Christian.” “Atheist.” They can help you find community, but they can also trap you there. Once you pick a label, you are expected to perform it perfectly. And if you leave room for nuance, you risk being shamed, bullied, or written off. That is how we end up with more certainty and less thinking. So where do we go from here? Smaller than people want. It starts with the next comment you almost leave, the next assumption you almost make, the next time you feel that rush of righteousness. Pause. Ask a question instead of throwing a punch. And if you can, get to know someone in real life who thinks differently from you, not to convert them, just to remember what it feels like to talk to a person instead of a stereotype. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Welcome + “Where Do We Go From Here?” in American Politics 00:48 The Rage Economy: Why Politics Feels Mean and Exhausting 01:33 Changing Your Mind: Why Admitting You’re Wrong Feels Risky 02:18 “Our Side Has to Win”: The Us vs Them Mindset 03:28 Trump Voters, Regret, and the Two-Choices Reality 04:56 The Exhausted Middle: Extremes on Both Sides and Political Fatigue 05:05 Social Media Algorithms: Why Outrage Gets Rewarded 08:04 Comment Sections vs Real Life 10:16 Belonging and Identity 15:33 Media Trust + Isaac Saul (Tangle) and the Cost of Being Fair 17:38 Staying Curious When It’s Uncomfortable 19:00 Accountability: Me Too, Complicity, and Protecting the Tribe 24:16 Menopause for President 26:16 The Enemies Project: Seeing Each Other’s Humanity Again 31:59 Wrap Up + Subscribe and Share RESOURCES MENTIONED: Eric Swallwell video: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXKWBRbFH76/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link [https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXKWBRbFH76/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link] Good for the Soul: The Enemies Project https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXKWBRbFH76/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link [https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXKWBRbFH76/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link] LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ [https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/] On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk [https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk] On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701] On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 [https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2] Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ [https://www.wevegottotalk.com/] How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ [https://nicolefonarow.com/] How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/ [https://dibledough.com/]

What is a Sanctuary City and how do they work?

Sanctuary cities are one of those topics that instantly makes people get their haunches up ready to “defend their side.” It’s either a lawless open border or a necessary humanitarian shield. But the truth is far more nuanced (and historical) than a political soundbite. Nicole (liberal) and Jolene (conservative) look past the headlines to figure out what "sanctuary" actually means in practice and how a religious movement from the 1980s became the flashpoint for today’s culture wars. We get into the history that most people have forgotten, starting with the 1980s sanctuary movement in Arizona churches. We talk about how immigration policy shifted from a labor issue to a criminal justice issue in the 90s, and why the "Deporter-in-Chief" title belongs to a president that might surprise you. Is the current system built for safety, or is it just a bureaucratic maze that leaves everyone on both sides of the aisle feeling frustrated? Then there’s the practical reality of local policing. We talk about why some police departments actually prefer sanctuary policies to build community trust, and the tension that creates when violent offenders fall through the cracks. If the goal is community safety, how do we balance federal law with local needs without turning every city into a political battlefield? Finally, we zoom out to the human side of the American dream. We talk about quotas, the "lottery" of citizenship, and why "common sense" is so hard to find in Washington. These are the conversations we have to have if we ever want to move past the shouting and find some common ground. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 02:07 Hot Takes from Liberal and Conservative on Sanctuary Cities 04:10 The 1980s Sanctuary Movement: It Started in the Church 09:00 The 1996 IIRAIRA Act: Moving from Labor to Criminal Justice 12:00 Secure Communities & The Obama Era Deportations 14:50 How Fingerprinting and ICE Holds Actually Work 17:30 Why Cities Choose Sanctuary Status 22:50 The Republican Perspective on Repeat Offenders 27:30 The American Dream vs. Political Quotas 31:00 Can We Fix the Path to Citizenship? RESOURCES MENTIONED: HISTORICAL ORIGINS OF THE SANCTUARY MOVEMENT * The Sanctuary Movement: 1980s Origins [https://carleton.ca/news/story/sanctuary-cities-history-1980s-origins/]: https://carleton.ca/news/story/sanctuary-cities-history-1980s-origins/ * * Boston’s Sanctuary History [https://globalboston.bc.edu/index.php/home/eras-of-migration/global-era/sanctuary-cities/]: https://globalboston.bc.edu/index.php/home/eras-of-migration/global-era/sanctuary-cities/ * * The Past and Present of Sanctuary Cities (Video) [https://youtu.be/XaR5kR8h4es?si=sc5n1ZobUVm6w_Uy]: https://youtu.be/XaR5kR8h4es?si=sc5n1ZobUVm6w_Uy LEGAL FRAMEWORK & POLICY DEFINITIONS * What is Sanctuary? (ALA) [https://www.ala.org/advocacy/what-sanctuary]: https://www.ala.org/advocacy/what-sanctuary * National Map of Local Entanglement with ICE [https://www.ilrc.org/resources/national-map-local-entanglement-ice]: https://www.ilrc.org/resources/national-map-local-entanglement-ice * Justice Department List of Sanctuary Jurisdictions [https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-publishes-list-sanctuary-jurisdictions]: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-publishes-list-sanctuary-jurisdictions * Secure Communities Explained [https://forumtogether.org/article/secure-communities/]:https://forumtogether.org/article/secure-communities/ THE OBAMA ERA & ENFORCEMENT LEGACY * Executive Action Fact Sheet (White House Archives) [https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/11/20/fact-sheet-immigration-accountability-executive-action] https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/11/20/fact-sheet-immigration-accountability-executive-action [https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/11/20/fact-sheet-immigration-accountability-executive-action] * The Mixed Legacy of Obama’s Immigration Policy (Cato Institute) [https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/obamas-mixed-legacy-immigration]: https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/obamas-mixed-legacy-immigration * The Shift to the Priority Enforcement Program (American Immigration Council [https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/president-obamas-legacy-immigration/]: https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/president-obamas-legacy-immigration/ [https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/president-obamas-legacy-immigration/] * Comparing Border Security: Obama vs. Biden (CIS) [https://cis.org/Arthur/Obama-Secured-Border-Why-Cant-Biden]: https://cis.org/Arthur/Obama-Secured-Border-Why-Cant-Biden * https://www.costplusdrugs.com/ [https://www.costplusdrugs.com/] MULTIMEDIA & VISUAL EXPLANERS * Understanding Sanctuary Policies (Video) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKHl__BEsD0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKHl__BEsD0 * The Immigration Debate Explained (Video) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJHgmQc-Fog]” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJHgmQc-Fog * Sanctuary Cities: A Closer Look (Video) [https://youtu.be/o2uFpuQQQ5Q?si=iWDv8Zz0Uuj6iPMD]: https://youtu.be/o2uFpuQQQ5Q?si=iWDv8Zz0Uuj6iPMD Our Website: * https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ [https://www.wevegottotalk.com/] LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ [https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/] On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk [https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk] On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701] On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 [https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2] Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ [https://www.wevegottotalk.com/] How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ [https://nicolefonarow.com/] How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/ [https://dibledough.com/]

Is AI Progress or Poison?

AI is one of those topics that makes people speak in absolutes: it’s either going to save us or destroy us. But the truth is simpler (and scarier): AI is already everywhere. It’s in your phone, your inbox, your car… it’s everywhere. In this episode, Nicole (liberal) and Jolene (conservative) talk about what happens when artificial intelligence stops being a future headline and starts becoming a daily habit without clear guardrails, shared rules, or conversations about the trade-offs. We get into the part that no one seems fully ready for: people forming emotional attachments to AI. From AI companions to chatbots that “listen” and affirm, it’s not hard to see how vulnerable people, especially teenagers, could start relying on AI for companionship, validation, or advice. Is that harmless? Helpful? Or a quiet mental health risk we’re sleepwalking into? We don’t pretend to have all the answers, but we do think this is one of the biggest human questions hiding inside the tech story. Then there’s the global AI arms race; competition, power, and the pressure to “win” at all costs. We talk about AI regulation, privacy, labor, safety, and the environmental impact of scaling AI fast. If speed becomes the only goal, what gets sacrificed along the way? And how do politics shape this conversation when AI doesn’t fit neatly into the usual left vs right boxes? We also talk about real-world AI you can’t ignore anymore, like self-driving cars like Waymo. The promise is obvious: fewer accidents and fewer human errors. But when machines make strange decisions, it hits a nerve, because we expect technology to be flawless. Finally, we zoom out to the bigger question: what happens to creativity and art in the age of AI-generated music, stories, and “AI slop”? Will “human-made” become a premium label? Watch, listen, and tell us where you land—because the future is being built whether we participate or not. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:23 Why Talk AI Now 01:26 Home Robots Are Coming 04:21 Defining AI And Limits 05:27 Emotional Intimacy Risks 07:14 ChatGPT In Real Life 11:37 When AI Gets It Wrong 13:46 AI Race And Environment 23:31 Innovation And Fear 24:45 Artists Versus AI 25:28 AI Podcast Irony 27:13 AI Music Without Breath 28:21 Human Made Comeback 29:33 Waymo Safety Stories 34:33 Regulation And Incentives 39:29 Human Partnership Mindset 40:54 Would You Rather AI Edition 44:28 Wrap Up And Farewell RESOURCES MENTIONED: White House Response: https://www.whitehouse.gov/priorities/tech-innovation/ [https://www.whitehouse.gov/priorities/tech-innovation/] Waymo: https://waymo.com/ [https://waymo.com/] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/dec/02/sam-altman-issues-code-red-at-openai-as-chatgpt-contends-with-rivals [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/dec/02/sam-altman-issues-code-red-at-openai-as-chatgpt-contends-with-rivals] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwy7vrd8k4eo [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwy7vrd8k4eo] https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/ai-has-environmental-problem-heres-what-world-can-do-about [https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/ai-has-environmental-problem-heres-what-world-can-do-about] Claude: https://claude.ai [https://claude.ai] Neo Robot: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1346749566932432 [https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1346749566932432] https://www.1x.tech/neo [https://www.1x.tech/neo] youtube.com/watch?si=_5IHpQWBO0vxGS9T&v=j31dmodZ-5c&feature=youtu.be Impact of AI data centres on the environment: https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/ai-has-environmental-problem-heres-what-world-can-do-about [https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/ai-has-environmental-problem-heres-what-world-can-do-about] LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ [https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/] On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk [https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk] On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701] On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 [https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2] Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ [https://www.wevegottotalk.com/] How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ [https://nicolefonarow.com/] How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/ [https://dibledough.com/]