The Product Science Podcast

The Dina Levitan Hypothesis: Systems Thinking Scales Products and Organizations

With an impressive background in computer science from MIT and years of experience as a site reliability engineer at Google, Dina Levitan shares how she approaches the art of problem definition, and what she’s learned about the value of subject matter expertise versus disciplined product management skills. The episode also touches on Dina’s passion for consulting, her thoughts on work-life integration as a mom and leader, and practical stories about rapidly ramping up in new industries without being a deep domain expert.  Key takeaways from Holly’s conversation with Dina Levitan, founder and principal of Chill Labs and lead product consultant at the Product Science Group, include the importance of centering the human experience in product development, the power of diverse and empowered teams, and why evidence-based strategies can unlock innovation, even in unfamiliar territory.     Resources  Visit Chill Labs [https://www.chillaborate.com/] where Dina helps companies build products that users want.  Explore Dina’s personal site [https://www.dinalevitan.com/] to explore her consulting and speaking services.  Connect with Dina on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinalev/]  Sign up for the "Automate Yourself" Newsletter at newsletter.chillaborate.com [http://newsletter.chillaborate.com]. Follow Holly on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/hollyhesterreilly/]  Visit the Product Science Group website [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/]  Explore Product Science Workshops and Courses [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/services/workshops]      Quotes from Dina Levitan:   (00:01:31) "One of the questions I ask myself when I'm working on a product problem is how can I systematize the best practices and the issues that we're seeing here so that we can remove that problem and never have it happen again. That's one of those SRE principles that I like to keep top of mind..." - Dina Levitan (00:05:21) "Whether it's in engineering or product management or life generally, understanding the true nature of a problem and its root causes is one of the most interesting and exciting pieces of the puzzle for me and motivates me to do my best work." - Dina Levitan  (00:16:13) "I know that for me, one of the more fun aspects of the job is facilitating workshops and seeing how ideas from each participant build on top of each other and help us get to a clear path forward." - Dina Levitan    Lab Notes : Lab Note 608.1: Continuous Discovery & Delivery: Centering the human is key.  Lab Note 608.2: Empowered Teams: Teams with diverse skillsets and perspectives foster greater understanding.  Lab Note 606.3: Evidence-Based Product Strategy: Gathering evidence leads to sound product strategy even in areas where pre-existing expertise is limited.  Lab Note 606.4: Building empowered teams requires both science and art.  Lab Note 606.5: Empathy and contextual understanding remain uniquely human.    Connect with the host, Holly Hester-Reilly:    Website - https://www.productsciencegroup.com/ [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/]  LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/product-science-group/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/product-science-group/]  Product Science Podcast - https://www.productsciencepodcast.com [https://www.productsciencepodcast.com/]  YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@productsciencegroup [https://www.youtube.com/@productsciencegroup]  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@productsciencegroup [https://www.tiktok.com/@productsciencegroup]  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/productsciencegroup/ [https://www.instagram.com/productsciencegroup/]      View the transcript and the full episode description on the Product Science Podcast website here.   [www.productsciencegroup.com/podcast]

The Mike Belsito Hypothesis: Evidence-Based Product Decisions Require Customer Conversations and Experiments

What happens when the product science principles are applied to a conference organization?  You get Product Collective, now called Mind The Product by Pendo.io. Through events like INDUSTRY: The Product Conference, along with resources such as a member hub and over 100 hours of past conference videos, product professionals across the globe find community, learn, and improve their work.   Rather than AI being the end-all-be-all answer, Mike hopes that AI will be used to integrate both qualitative insights from empathetic customer interactions and quantitative data. This evidence-based approach involves testing strategies through small experiments, learning from the outcomes, and aligning decisions with core values and customer outcomes for incremental growth.   Mike also reveals insights from his experience working with Bob Moesta on jobs-to-be-done interviews, highlighting the value of going deep in customer research to uncover valuable insights, and in his case, understand attendees’ needs and improve the conference and/or community experience.   Takeaways include asking deeper questions, spending more time gathering that qualitative feedback so that you can go deeper, being curiously observant of jobs-to-be-done, and finding various modalities in which to gather continuous feedback from the “friendlies” and those who are more hesitant to capture a complete picture.   Resources  Follow Mike Belsito on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikebelsito/]  Explore the free resources and upcoming events at mindtheproduct.com [https://www.mindtheproduct.com/]  Listen to Mike on Rocketship.fm [https://open.spotify.com/show/5kcEHIj6RjVMTNBAx3ONVr?si=6bee439459db4d61]  Follow Holly on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/hollyhesterreilly/]  Visit the Product Science Group website [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/]  Explore Product Science Workshops and Courses [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/services/workshops]    Quotes from Mike Belsito  (00:06:52) "The job that people hire your product for, you know, if you want to think of it, in jobs to be done context, it may not be what you think it is." - Mike Belsito  (00:21:29) "Qualitative data is data. So being data driven doesn't mean that we're relying only on the reports and the analytics. It's not an either or. It's not quantitative versus qualitative. It's using them both together." - Mike Belsito  (00:28:15) "It's not just what you've learned, but it's these relationships that are a real value to you." - Mike Belsito  Lab Notes  Lab Note 607.1: Depth is where you find Differentiation.  Lab Note 607.2: Start with observation of the jobs-to-be-done. Lab Note 607.3: Use different modalities to get feedback from a range of people.

The Andy Breen Hypothesis: Testing for Value Risk is the Most Critical Yet Overlooked Piece of Product Success

Andrew Breen, CEO of Prints of Love and Partner at Buy Build Fund, a seasoned entrepreneur and educator, believes in the power of observing user interactions to uncover the subconscious value people place on products, thereby driving strategic decisions beyond mere spreadsheet analysis. His experience reflects advocacy for addressing often-overlooked value risk and emphasizes the necessity of understanding both emotional and social values in product management. By challenging assumptions and focusing on customer needs, he highlights the importance of understanding both functional and emotional aspects of products, demonstrating how emotional benefits can strongly appeal to consumers and influence behavior.  Resources  Visit Buy Build Fund [https://buybuildfund.com/] where Andy partners with investors and business owners  Explore Prints of Love [https://printsoflove.com/], where he serves as Board Member & CEO  Connect with Andrew Breen on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewbreen/]  Follow Andy Breen on X [https://x.com/buckybanjo]   Follow Holly on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/hollyhesterreilly/]  Visit the Product Science Group website [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/]  Explore Product Science Workshops and Courses [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/services/workshops]  Quotes from Andy Breen:   (00:05:57) "It's not about the technology. Just because you build it, they will not come. And you really do need to be solving problems for people and offering them something that changes them and their life and their abilities." - Andy Breen  (00:08:57) "...these days especially every product gets about 30 seconds of consideration, you know, at the top. And so you have to have a clear value proposition." - Andy Breen  (00:26:19) "There are a lot of stay-at-home moms or like people like engineers doing little SAS side projects and stuff that were turning into real businesses, real revenue, real profits, you know, something that's not often talked about in the venture world." - Andy Breen  Lab Notes  Lab Note 606.1: Too many product managers underestimate the importance of assessing value risk.  Lab Note 606.2: Conducting value research often means holding uncomfortable tensions. Lab Note 606.3: When qualitative and quantitative are telling you the same thing, you’re on your way to product market fit. Lab Note 606.4: Continuous Product Discovery has been useful since the 90’s, even if it looks different today.  Lab Note 606.5: Deciding which customer use cases to replace with AI requires evidence-based product strategy.  View the transcript and the full episode description on the Product Science Podcast website here. [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/podcast/testing-for-value-risk-is-the-most-critical-yet-overlooked-piece-of-product-success]   Podcast video editing & management provided by podcastabundance.com

The Ha Nguyen Hypothesis: Passion, Commitment, and Community will Drive Your Product Career to New Places

Ha Nguyen, a seasoned Silicon Valley product leader, then co-founding partner at Spero Ventures, Chief Experiences Officer at Swimply, and now Managing Partner at NextStep, a fractional & advisory COO consulting firm, shares her perspective, lessons learned, and journey through the ranks with us today.   Ha's journey underscores the importance of adaptability, continuous learning, and leveraging networks in navigating a product management career. She highlights the significance of being proactive, driving outcomes, and having the courage to ask for opportunities and support from leadership. Ha's experience showcases how excelling in one's function, seeking opportunities for growth and expansion, and being ready to pivot when necessary can lead to transformative career shifts, such as her transition from a VP of Product role to venture capital.  Continuous product discovery is proven critical through Ha’s story, even as companies scale, emphasizing the need to maintain customer contact and understanding throughout growth phases. Ha Nguyen's advice on driving impact, seeking expanded responsibilities, and being willing to walk away when opportunities for growth are limited resonates with the team at Product Science Group. By prioritizing personal growth, seeking supportive environments, and proactively shaping their career paths, product developers and leaders can make strategic decisions that propel their careers and products forward.  Resource Links:  Follow Ha Nguyen on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/hanguyen-spero/]  Visit NextStepFwd, Ha’s Consulting website [https://nextstepfwd.com/]  Join the NextStep Substack [https://nextstepfwd.com/blog/]  Follow Holly on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/hollyhesterreilly/]  Visit the Product Science Group website [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/]  Explore Product Science Workshops and Courses [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/services/workshops]  Quotes from Ha Nguyen:  (00:05:45) "I felt like I was ready to sort of increase my scope and my impact, albeit at a smaller company. However, I really wanted to have more influence over the direction of the company, not just the direction of our products." - Ha Nguyen  (00:09:39) "Be incredibly good at what you do. Startups give you the opportunity to have expanded scope, work for a great boss who's supportive of your career. Don't be afraid to ask. And then finally, if. If they're not going to support you and what you need, then you might need to make the decision to walk." - Ha Nguyen  (00:28:47) "When you build the network and people have seen that you have been putting the hours in to build what I call the labor of love projects, it, it's just easier because when you need to reach out to folks for anything they want to help you, they'll pick up the phone and they'll help you." - Ha Nguyen  Lab Notes:   Lab Note 605.1: As a company grows, you must intentionally create structure for continuous product discovery. (00:31:46)  Lab Note 605.2: Raise your hand to access new opportunities. (00:33:03)  Lab Note 605.3: There are varied perspectives on work-life balance and startup life. (00:34:07)  Lab Note 605.4: Fractional product work is a great fit for creative people who thrive in ambiguity, but it’s not accessible or right for everyone. (00:36:38) Lab Note 605.5: Invest in your network throughout your career and it will pay dividends. (00:40:27)  View the transcript and the ⁠full episode description on the Product Science Podcast website here.⁠ [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/podcast/successful-product-launches-require-systematically-building-and-testing-solutions-to-market-opportunitiesPassion-Commitment-and-Community-will-Drive-Your-Product-Career-to-New Places ] Podcast video editing & management provided by podcastabundance.com

The Stephanie Leue Hypothesis: Developing Product Strategy is a Critical, Ongoing Piece of the Chief Product Officer Role

How do CPOs balance keep teams engaged in meaningful work while building a product strategy from scratch? Stephanie Leue, Chief Product Officer at Doodle at the time of this recording, shares how she integrates customer feedback, collaboration with internal teams, and data-driven insights to inform strategic decisions, underscoring the value of communication and using various artifacts to convey the product strategy effectively across the organization.  By engaging in discovery while leveraging foundational work, teams can build trust and demonstrate progress to stakeholders. Stephanie’s experience as a seasoned product leader in B2B SaaS, along with her focus on leadership coaching and diversity and inclusion, underscores the critical role of experienced product leaders in making the craft of product management appear seamless.   Overall, her approach emphasizes the iterative nature of product strategy development, de-risking bets with data and discovery, and fostering collaboration and trust within teams to drive meaningful progress and innovation in product development.  Resource Links  Visit Stephanie’s webpage [https://stephanieleue.com/]  Follow Stephanie Leue’s Substack [https://substack.com/@stephleue]  Follow Stephanie Leue on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-leue/]  Visit the Doodle website [https://doodle.com/en/]  Follow Holly on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/hollyhesterreilly/]  Visit the Product Science Group website [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/]  Explore Product Science Workshops and Courses [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/services/workshops]  Quotes from Stephanie Leue: "We just don't want to build one feature after another. We want to have kind of a bigger picture in mind and we want to achieve that bigger version of what we are today, right?"  “If you show them 1 minute 20 about the future of a product, they immediately have 20,000 things that will never work out. And they have 20,000 questions and like tons of ideas why things will take way longer than expected. But to be honest, that's exactly the discussion you want to have, right?”   “We needed to train ourselves to ask the right questions. We needed to get answers to these questions. We needed to understand the data we got. We needed to compose a picture out of that data. So that takes a while because that's like a team effort.” Lab Notes  Lab Note 604.1: Experienced product leaders make the craft of product management look easy  Lab Note 604.2: Strategy is a series of bets that can make even the CPO uncomfortable  Lab Note 604.3: Use different communication approaches for different audiences of your product strategy Lab Note 604.4: Find foundational alignment and begin executing while you are developing your bigger product strategy  Ready to elevate your product leadership game? Dive deep into practical solutions for real-world product challenges. Register now: https://www.productsciencegroup.com/services [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/services]  View the transcript and the ⁠full episode description on the Product Science Podcast website here.⁠ [https://www.productsciencegroup.com/podcast/Developing-Product-Strategy-is-a-Critical-Ongoing-Piece-of-the-Chief-Product-Officer-Role] Podcast video editing & management provided by podcastabundance.com