Joining the Dots with Thomas Drohan

Rachael Herbert – Exposing the UK high street’s money laundering problem

In this episode of Joining the Dots, Thomas Drohan is joined by Rachael Herbert, Director of the National Economic Crime Centre (NECC), to explore how economic crime is playing out closer to home than many people realise. Rachael explains how money laundering, illicit finance and organised crime are increasingly embedded in everyday places – including the UK high street – and why tackling these threats requires a genuinely system-wide response. Using Operation Machinize as a case study, she unpacks how law enforcement, regulators, government and the private sector are working together to disrupt criminal networks, uncover hidden harms such as modern slavery, and generate intelligence at scale. The conversation also looks beyond enforcement alone. Rachael reflects on the role of policy and legislation, the importance of trusted public–private partnerships, and how intelligence-led approaches can help organisations and authorities get further upstream of risk. Looking ahead, she shares her perspective on emerging threats – from crypto and synthetic identities to AI – and why local, community-level crime still matters in a rapidly evolving threat landscape. This is a practical, grounded discussion for anyone working in economic crime, financial crime, regulation, security, or risk – and for anyone interested in how national strategies intersect with local realities.

Jamie Bartlett - How to Talk to AI, Influence and The Missing Cryptoqueen

In this episode of Joining the Dots, Thomas is joined by Jamie Bartlett, journalist, author and creator of the BBC podcast The Missing Cryptoqueen, for a wide-ranging conversation on emerging technology, influence and how society responds when innovation outpaces institutions. Jamie reflects on his career tracking the social impact of new technologies, from the dark web and cryptocurrencies to social media, online radicalisation and now artificial intelligence. He explains why it is rarely the technology itself that causes disruption, but what happens when large numbers of people begin using it in ways its creators never expected. The conversation explores Jamie’s latest work on how to talk to AI, including why large language models are best understood as tools shaped by language, tone and framing. He shares practical reflections on prompting, bias and why AI can reinforce our assumptions unless we actively challenge it to act as a devil’s advocate. Jamie also discusses the growing influence risks created by AI, from synthetic media and emotionally persuasive scams to large-scale disinformation. Drawing on years of research into propaganda and online movements, he explains why cherry-picked truths can be more powerful than outright lies, and why public trust is becoming harder to maintain. The episode closes with a candid update on The Missing Cryptoqueen. Jamie shares where the investigation stands today, what the FBI’s ongoing interest does and does not mean, and his current assessment of what likely happened to Ruja Ignatova. He also explains why there will be no further episodes unless there is a definitive breakthrough.

Tony Sales – My life in fraud and why prevention keeps failing

In this episode of Joining the Dots, Thomas is joined by Tony Sales, Co‑Founder of We Fight FinCrime and a former prolific fraudster, for a candid conversation about the realities of economic crime - from both sides of the line. Tony shares his journey from a childhood shaped by organised crime and years spent committing fraud, to prison, rehabilitation, and ultimately using his lived experience to help organisations understand how criminals really operate. Drawing on first‑hand insight, he explains why technology alone will never stop fraud - and why human behaviour remains the biggest vulnerability criminals exploit. The discussion explores how fraud and organised crime have evolved from physical theft to cyber‑enabled scams, the rise of social engineering, and why “getting the basics right” still beats chasing the latest security technology. Tony also examines youth vulnerability, money muling, and the way online environments can quietly pull young people into criminal activity. Looking ahead, Tony shares his views on emerging threats — including data exploitation, deepfakes, and AI‑enabled scams — and why stolen data never truly loses its value. This is a raw, thought‑provoking episode on modern fraud, human risk, and what it really takes to prevent economic crime.

Matt Horne – Operation Venetic: how encrypted crime was finally exposed

In this episode of Joining the Dots, Thomas is joined by Matt Horne, Director of Intelligence and Investigations at Clue and former National Crime Agency Gold Commander, to unpack one of the most significant law enforcement operations in UK history: Operation Venetic. Matt provides a rare insider account of how UK and international law enforcement disrupted EncroChat - a supposedly impregnable encrypted communications network used by serious organised crime groups. He explains how investigators went from “going dark” to facing an overwhelming flood of anonymised data, and the challenge of turning that information into actionable intelligence while protecting life, preserving covert access, and building cases capable of standing up in court. The conversation moves beyond the headlines of the Channel 4 documentary Operation Dark Phone: Murder by Text, exploring what EncroChat revealed about the global, businesslike nature of organised crime, the accelerating role of technology, and how digital platforms can rapidly elevate criminal capability. Matt and Thomas also discuss the wider lessons for intelligence and investigations today – from data overload and evidential integrity, to the responsible use of technology and AI in identifying risk, prioritising threats, and preventing harm.

Will Lyne & Matt Horne: Cybercrime, national security, and the fight for resilience

Thomas is joined by Will Lyne, former Deputy Director of the National Crime Agency’s Cyber Intelligence team, and Matt Horne, Director of Intelligence and Investigations at Clue and Chair of TechUK’s National Security Committee, for a fireside chat on today’s rapidly evolving threat landscape.  They explore how cybercrime has transformed into a global criminal ecosystem – lowering barriers to entry, enabling ransomware at scale, and blurring the lines between state-backed activity and organised crime. Will and Matt unpack why this “grey zone” of threats demands new strategies, from smarter disruption operations to cross-sector collaboration and data-driven attribution.  The conversation also looks ahead to the challenges and opportunities of emerging technologies like AI and quantum computing, the double-edged role of digital ecosystems, and the importance of resilience and whole-of-society responses to national security risks.  It’s a candid discussion on the realities of cybercrime today – and what it will take to disrupt harm in an interconnected world.