Season 3 | Ep 6 Rob Avann on governance, trusteeship and building boards that actually work
In this episode of the Charity Changemakers Podcast, Adam is joined by Rob Avann, charity consultant, interim leader and seasoned trustee, for a conversation that gets into the real nuts and bolts of charity governance - and why so many organisations are still getting it wrong.
With 20 years in the sector, eight years as a permanent CEO, a spell as interim CEO, and 16 years across five trustee boards, Rob brings a rare 360-degree perspective.
He shares how his career began in local government - commissioning services around crime, domestic violence and community safety - before a growing connection to the charity sector pulled him across. His first trustee role came before his first charity job, and that sequence, he argues, shaped everything that followed.
Adam and Rob dig into what makes the board-CEO relationship work, why it so often doesn't, and what both sides consistently get wrong. Rob is candid about the mistakes he sees in his consultancy work, from the absence of clear governance frameworks to boards that drift into the operational when clarity breaks down, and explains why governance is never a destination, always a journey.
Together, Adam and Rob unpack:
* Why every CEO should serve as a trustee somewhere else - and what it changes
* The chair-CEO relationship as the most important dynamic in any charity
* How to build trust across the board without letting challenge slide into blame
* What a governance review actually looks like - and how to handle findings that surprise people
* The honest realities of transitioning from CEO to consultant, including the sleepless nights
* How interim and permanent CEO roles differ in mindset, not just tenure
* The power of mentoring and where to find it - from Cranfield Trust to the Kilfinan Group
* Why delegation isn't optional, and burnout is what happens when leaders forget that
Rob also reflects on the managers who shaped him, why he wishes he'd told them so at the time, and what he'd say to his younger self about not carrying the weight of an organisation alone.
Takeaways
* Trusteeship | Governance | Board-CEO relationships | Interim leadership | Charity consulting | Mentoring | Delegation | Career development
Chapters
* [00:00] Introduction and background
* [08:23] Why trusteeship is pivotal — for trustees and CEOs alike
* [10:08] What goes wrong between boards and chief executives
* [16:44] Navigating the line between governance and operations
* [21:44] Leading through COVID and the value of strong foundations
* [23:36] Mentoring, great managers and how to find support
* [28:10] The transition to consulting — variety, freedom and the odd sleepless night
* [32:17] Permanent vs interim CEO — a different mindset entirely
* [36:55] Governance reviews — holding up a mirror to organisations
* [40:27] Leadership advice and what Rob would tell his younger self
#CharityGovernance #Trusteeship #CharityLeadership #NonProfitLeadership #CharityChangemakers #BoardDevelopment #CharityCareers #CharitySector #InterimLeadership #ThirdSector