CMO Chapters Podcast with Lucy Bolan

From Scrappy Scale-Up to Global Growth: Leadership, EQ & Marketing That Actually Matters with Penny Elmslie

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Penny Elmslie, CMO of Affinda and former Global GM Brand at Xero, for a refreshingly honest conversation about what marketing really looks like behind the scenes. From starting her career in media sales to helping scale Xero from a little-known challenger brand to a global powerhouse, Penny shares the realities of building marketing functions from scratch, navigating hyper-growth, and leading through constant change. This is a grounded, practical conversation that cuts through the fluff. Penny unpacks the difference between “doing marketing” and driving real business impact, why EQ is fast becoming a leader’s greatest advantage, and how marketers can stay relevant in a world that’s shifting faster than ever. WHAT YOU’LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: Why marketing is more commercial than most people realise: Penny breaks down the myth that marketing is just creativity and campaigns. At its core, it’s about clarity, execution and driving measurable business outcomes. The reality of scaling a brand like Xero: From launching campaigns with zero assets to building global playbooks, Penny shares what it actually takes to grow from scrappy startup to international scale. How to balance bold ideas with business priorities: Not every good idea should live forever. Penny talks about knowing when to push, when to pause, and when to let go. Why vanity metrics are holding marketers back: A clear take on why impressions and clicks don’t cut it, and what leaders should really be measuring instead. The role of EQ in modern leadership: In a world full of smart people, emotional intelligence is what sets great leaders apart. Penny explains how understanding people drives better outcomes across teams, stakeholders and customers. What actually matters for aspiring marketing leaders: From finding your strengths to building the right environment around you, this is practical advice for anyone looking to step up into leadership. KEY THEMES & INSIGHTS: Marketing = business impact, not activity: The best marketers connect everything they do back to commercial outcomes. If it doesn’t move the business forward, it’s noise. We’re all just marketing to humans: B2B, B2C… it doesn’t matter. Strip it back and you’re speaking to people with emotions, pressures and motivations. That’s where the real connection happens. Timing matters more than the idea: There’s rarely a “bad” idea, but there is bad timing. Knowing when to execute is where experience really shows. Your environment shapes your career: Finding “your people” can be the difference between surviving in a role and genuinely thriving in it. Careers aren’t linear, and that’s the point: Penny’s journey is a reminder that progression isn’t about titles. It’s about impact, growth and putting yourself in the right rooms. CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Penny Elmslie on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/penny-elmslie-49103b10/] ***** Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent: Instagram: @NewChapterTalent [https://www.instagram.com/newchaptertalent/] LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/] || CMO Chapters Podcast [https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/cmo-chapters-podcast/] This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today! Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us [https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/] Email: lucy@newchaptertalent.com.au [lucy@newchaptertalent.com.au] Chapters: * (00:00) Introduction to CMO Chapters * (00:53) Penny’s career chapter in AI and tech marketing * (01:45) From media sales to marketing * (03:00) What marketing really turned out to be * (05:09) Joining Xero before anyone knew the brand * (07:15) Building from scratch vs scaling globally * (10:46) Finding the next scale-up chapter * (14:01) Lessons from failures and knowing when to let go * (17:42) Marketing to humans, not job titles * (19:59) Ambition, influence and becoming a CMO * (24:14) What separates a good CMO from a stellar CMO * (28:04) Career advice, networks and the leadership skill that always matters

Purpose, People & Progress: Leading Modern Marketing with Libby Hodgson

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Libby Hodgson, Chief Marketing Officer at UNICEF Australia, for a thoughtful and refreshingly honest conversation about what modern marketing leadership really looks like. Libby shares her non-linear career journey across financial services, the UK, and purpose-led organisations, and reflects on the moments that shaped her leadership style. From navigating workplace conflict to building confidence over time, this is a grounded look at what it actually takes to grow into a CMO role. The conversation also dives into one of the biggest shifts facing marketers today, the rise of AI. Libby unpacks how UNICEF has approached adoption in a practical, human-first way, and why culture, not just tools, determines success. A must-listen for marketers at every stage, especially those thinking about leadership, relevance, and how to build a career that lasts. WHAT YOU’LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: * Why career paths aren’t always planned: Libby reflects on how her early career wasn’t mapped out for leadership, and how stepping outside the “expected path” helped shape her trajectory. * The reality of leadership and conflict: One of the biggest lessons in her career has been learning to sit with discomfort, manage conflict, and lead through ambiguity. * The skills marketers need at different stages: From execution and delivery early on, to strategy, financial literacy, and people leadership at senior levels, the skillset evolves more than most expect. * How AI is actually being implemented in marketing teams: A practical look at how to introduce AI without overwhelming teams, starting with guardrails, empowering individuals, and focusing on real business problems. * Why soft skills are becoming the differentiator: As AI accelerates capability, it’s emotional intelligence, curiosity, and critical thinking that will set marketers apart. * Specialist vs generalist – what really works: Early specialisation can accelerate growth, but long-term leadership requires breadth, adaptability, and a willingness to step into the unknown. * What makes a great CMO today: Strategic thinking, strong communication, curiosity, resilience, and the ability to connect marketing to real business outcomes. RESOURCES & MENTIONS: UNICEF Australia [https://www.unicef.org.au/] – Purpose-led organisation focused on protecting children’s rights and wellbeing globally. AI in Marketing [https://www.acam.ai/] (ACAM) – Practical frameworks around governance, experimentation, and adoption within teams. CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Libby Hodgson on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/libbyhodgson/] ***** Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent: Instagram: @NewChapterTalent [https://www.instagram.com/newchaptertalent/] LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/] || CMO Chapters Podcast [https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/cmo-chapters-podcast/] This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today! Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us [https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/] Email: lucy@newchaptertalent.com.au [lucy@newchaptertalent.com.au] Chapters: * (00:00) Introduction to CMO Chapters & Libby Hodgson * (01:25) Libby’s Career Journey: From Financial Services to UNICEF * (02:09) Early Career Ambition & Finding Direction * (04:21) Career Reflections: Decisions, Regrets & Purpose * (05:53) Hard Lessons: Navigating Conflict as a Leader * (08:31) Advice for Aspiring CMOs: Skills That Matter * (11:46) AI, Soft Skills & Staying Relevant in Marketing * (15:14) Inside AI Adoption at UNICEF: Where to Start * (22:05) Building a Personal Brand as a Marketing Leader * (25:36) What It Really Takes to Be a Successful CMO * (27:46) The Reality of Leadership: Pressure & Loneliness * (31:09) Specialist vs Generalist: Career Strategy Explained * (34:10) Legacy, Impact & Supporting Others’ Careers

Curiosity, Commercial Thinking & Growing Your Bubble with Mohit Bhargava

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Mohit (Mo) Bhargava, a seasoned marketing leader with over 20 years’ experience across media, entertainment and global markets. From an unexpected start behind a university bar to leading marketing across Southeast Asia, Mo shares a career shaped by curiosity, relationships and a willingness to step into the unknown. This is a refreshingly honest conversation about what the CMO role really looks like, how careers actually unfold (hint: not in a straight line), and why the best marketers today blend creativity with commercial thinking. Mo also opens up on the harder side of leadership, what he looks for when hiring, and why “growing your bubble” might be the most important career advice you’ll hear this year. WHAT YOU’LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: * Why the CMO role isn’t what you think: No two marketing leadership roles look the same. The expectations, remit and impact of marketing change dramatically depending on the business. * How curiosity can shape your entire career: Mo’s first role came from a conversation at a bar. A simple reminder that how you show up outside the job description often matters more than what’s on your CV. * The reality of leadership (beyond the title): Leadership isn’t a promotion, it’s a skill built over time. And often, the hardest parts of the role have very little to do with marketing. * What great hiring really comes down to: It’s not just about capability. It’s about chemistry, self-awareness and whether someone’s style fits the role marketing plays in that business. * Why soft skills are becoming the differentiator: Technical skills get you in the room. How you think, communicate and collaborate is what sets you apart. * How to stay relevant in the age of AI: AI can improve speed and efficiency, but creativity still needs human energy. The best marketers will know how to balance both. * The importance of commercial thinking: If you’ve never had to sell something, you’re missing a key piece of the puzzle. Understanding revenue changes how you approach marketing. * “Grow your bubble”: One of the standout moments of the episode. Broaden your perspective, challenge your environment, and actively seek different experiences. It’s critical for leadership. KEY TAKEAWAYS: * Careers are rarely linear. Follow themes, not titles. * Relationships matter, but credibility matters more. * Don’t wait for a leadership role to start leading. * Marketing leaders today need both depth (a “superpower”) and breadth. * Staying close to culture isn’t optional, it’s part of the job. * The best opportunities often come from what you do consistently over time, not one interview moment. CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Mohit Bhargava – LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mobhargava/] *** Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent: Instagram: @NewChapterTalent [https://www.instagram.com/newchaptertalent/] LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/] || CMO Chapters Podcast [https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/cmo-chapters-podcast/] This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today! Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us [https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/] Email: lucy@newchaptertalent.com.au [lucy@newchaptertalent.com.au] Chapters: * (00:00) Introduction to CMO Chapters & Guest Welcome * (01:15) Mohit’s Background: 20 Years in Media & Entertainment * (02:08) The Reality of a CMO Role (Expectation vs Reality) * (03:23) From Bartender to Marketing: The Career Break That Started It All * (07:53) Ambition, Career Direction & Finding Your Industry * (10:44) The Hardest Leadership Decisions (Moving During COVID) * (13:16) What CMOs Actually Look for When Hiring * (18:07) AI, Creativity & The Future of Marketing Teams * (21:04) Why Your Career Is Always “On Interview” * (23:16) Advice for Aspiring Leaders: Don’t Wait for the Title * (29:30) “Grow Your Bubble” & Avoiding Career Stagnation * (31:32) Rebuilding a Career & Defining Legacy

From Execution to Strategy: Building Influence, Community & Modern Marketing Leadership with Jarrod Purchase

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Jarrod Purchase, a seasoned marketing leader with over 17 years’ experience spanning startups, scale-ups and global brands. Jarrod shares his journey from hands-on email marketer to CMO, and why working closely with founders shaped the way he thinks about marketing, leadership and impact. He also opens up about building Club CMO Australia, the realities of today’s job market, and how AI is quietly reshaping teams, roles and expectations. This is a grounded, honest conversation about what marketing really looks like behind the scenes. Less theory, more reality. WHAT YOU’LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: * Why the best marketers balance creativity and commercial thinking It’s not just about great campaigns. The ability to connect activity to outcomes is what earns trust and influence. * How working with founders changes your perspective Closer to decisions, faster pace, less politics. But it also demands adaptability and accountability. * The real value of community at CMO level Why Jarrod built Club CMO Australia and how peer conversations often beat any course or podcast. * What’s actually happening in the marketing job market right now Fewer roles at the top, pressure at the bottom, and a growing shift towards fractional and flexible leadership. * How AI is changing team structures (without the hype) Not a wipeout of roles, but a shift in how teams are built, where senior thinking matters more and execution becomes leaner. * Why personal brand is often a byproduct, not a strategy Focus on connecting people and adding value. The rest tends to follow. * The biggest career mistakes marketers make Not trusting your gut on roles, and not properly assessing whether a business truly values marketing. KEY TAKEAWAYS: * Marketing is both creative and commercial. You need to be comfortable in both worlds. * The closer you are to decision-makers, the more impact you can have. * Community and peer learning become critical as you step into senior roles. * AI is more likely to reshape teams than replace them entirely. * Strong marketers ask better questions, especially when it comes to numbers. * Culture, leadership and respect for marketing matter more than job titles. CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jarrod-purchase-marketing-brand-strategy/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jarrod-purchase-marketing-brand-strategy/] Club CMO Australia: https://www.linkedin.com/company/club-cmo-aus/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/club-cmo-aus/] *** Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent: Instagram: @NewChapterTalent [https://www.instagram.com/newchaptertalent/] LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/] || CMO Chapters Podcast [https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/cmo-chapters-podcast/] This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today! Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us [https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/] Email: lucy@newchaptertalent.com.au [lucy@newchaptertalent.com.au] Chapters: * (00:00) Welcome to CMO Chapters * (00:48) Meet Jarrod Purchase: From Email Marketing to CMO * (02:08) Starting Out at GSK & Falling Into Marketing * (04:10) Creativity vs Commercial: What Marketing Really Is * (05:48) Intentional Careers & Finding the Right Environment * (08:02) Why the CMO Role Was Never the Goal * (09:09) Building Community, Not Personal Brand * (12:08) The Reality of Today’s Marketing Job Market * (14:00) AI, Lean Teams & The Future of Hiring * (19:02) Leadership Skills: What Actually Matters * (20:06) The Gap Between Creative Work & Commercial Impact * (22:23) The Future of the CMO Role * (25:25) Failures, Gut Instinct & Choosing the Right Company * (28:33) Learning from People, Not Just Content * (30:24) What’s Next for Jarrod

Storytelling That Sticks: Influence, Trust & Standing Out in a Noisy World with Gabrielle Dolan

In the Season 3 opener of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with storytelling expert Gabrielle “Ral” Dolan for a refreshingly honest conversation about why storytelling isn’t just a “nice to have” - it’s a core leadership skill. From leaving corporate to build a business around storytelling (long before it was fashionable), to unpacking how stories drive emotion, trust and decision-making, Ral shares what actually works - and what doesn’t. They explore how storytelling cuts through in a world of AI and content overload, why most leaders get it wrong, and how marketers, candidates and executives can use simple, human stories to connect, influence and stand out. If you’ve ever been told to “tell your story” but weren’t quite sure how - this episode makes it feel a whole lot clearer. WHAT YOU’LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: * Why storytelling is one of the most underrated leadership skills * The real reason stories influence decisions (hint: it’s not logic) * How to make your message land - and actually be remembered * The difference between telling a story and just talking for too long * How CMOs can use storytelling to bring values and culture to life * Practical ways to use storytelling in job interviews * Why personal stories often carry more weight than professional ones * How to avoid sounding like everyone else in a world full of AI-generated content * The simple structure that keeps your stories clear, sharp and impactful KEY TAKEAWAYS: Emotion drives decisions - not logic alone We like to think we’re rational, especially in business. We’re not. Stories tap into emotion, and that’s what people remember and act on. Stories build credibility in a way words can’t Anyone can say “I value collaboration” or “customer experience matters.” A story proves it - and that’s what people trust. Shorter is stronger If your story is running over two minutes, you’ve probably lost people. The best ones are tight, clear and focused on one message. Personal stories are the secret weapon They’re underused - and often the most powerful. They show who you are, not just what you’ve done. Storytelling is a skill, not a talent Some people are naturally good at it, but everyone can get better with the right structure and practice. Your employees are your best storytellers Not just marketing. Not just leadership. Everyone in the business plays a role in shaping the brand story. RESOURCES & MENTIONS: * Story Intelligence by Gabrielle Dolan * Stephen Denning - The Leader’s Guide to Storytelling * Aristotle’s model of influence: Logos, Ethos, Pathos CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Gabrielle Dolan on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabrielledolan/] Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent: Instagram: @NewChapterTalent [https://www.instagram.com/newchaptertalent/] LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/] || CMO Chapters Podcast [https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/cmo-chapters-podcast/] This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today! Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us [https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/] Email: lucy@newchaptertalent.com.au [lucy@newchaptertalent.com.au] Chapters: * (00:00) Welcome to CMO Chapters * (00:43) Introducing Gabrielle Dolan * (01:35) Gabrielle’s career journey into storytelling * (03:05) Why storytelling mattered in business before it was mainstream * (06:45) Is storytelling natural talent or a skill you can build? * (08:55) Why stories are so effective and memorable * (11:19) Storytelling, AI and building trust * (12:43) How leaders can use personal stories to bring values to life * (17:43) The biggest storytelling mistake: stories that go too long * (19:08) Using storytelling in interviews and career progression * (27:26) Why storytelling is a career skill, not just a marketing skill * (37:26) What’s next for Gabrielle and why storytelling is a life skill * (39:55) Closing thoughts on the road to CMO