Decoder with Nilay Patel

Today, I’m talking with journalist Megan Greenwell about her new book Bad Company: Private Equity and the Death of the American Dream. It comes out June 10th. It's fantastic and maddening in equal measure. I highly recommend it. In this episode, we discussed the genesis of Megan’s interest in the subject and its genesis in media — including her time as editor-in-chief of the website Deadspin, which underwent a very public PE takeover of its parent company. We also talk a lot about the healthcare industry, another major pillar of Megan’s book. I'm excited to hear what you think of this one. Links:  * Bad Company | HarperCollins [https://www.harpercollins.com/products/bad-company-megan-greenwell?variant=43151012757538] * Private equity bought out your doctor and bankrupted Toys ‘R’ Us | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/23758492/private-equity-brendan-ballou-plunder-finance-doj] * Private equity Is gutting America — and getting away with it | NYT [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/28/opinion/private-equity.html] * I was fired from Deadspin for refusing to ‘stick to sports’ | NYT [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/11/opinion/deadspin-sports.html] * Will private equity be the next ‘Big Short’? | Marketplace [https://www.marketplace.org/story/2024/10/07/is-private-equity-in-trouble] * The profit-obsessed monster destroying American ERs | Vox [https://www.vox.com/health-care/374820/emergency-rooms-private-equity-hospitals-profits-no-surprises] * Why your vet bill is so high | The Atlantic [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/vet-private-equity-industry/678180/] * The investment firms leave behind a barren wasteland’ | Politico [https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/18/is-wall-street-to-blame-for-the-collapse-of-newspapers-00141920] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinde Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

In what's become a bit of a Decoder tradition, I spoke with Google CEO Sundar Pichai in person after I/O. The conference this year was all about AI, particularly a slew of actual AI products, not just models and capabilities. To Sundar, this marks the beginning of a new era for search and the web overall. So I had to ask: what happens to the web when AI tools and eventually agents do most of the browsing for us? It was a very Decoder conversation. Read the full transcript here [https://www.theverge.com/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel/673638/google-ceo-sundar-pichai-interview-ai-search-web-future]. Links:  * Help us plan the future of Decoder! | AUDIENCE SURVEY [http://voxmedia.com/survey] * The 15 biggest announcements at Google I/O 2025 | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/669408/google-io-2025-biggest-announcements-ai-gemini] * We tried on Google’s prototype AI smart glasses | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/hands-on/671077/project-moohan-android-xr-google-io-2025-smart-glasses-wearables] * AI Mode is obviously the future of Google Search | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/google-io/670439/google-ai-mode-search-io-2025] * News publishers call Google’s AI Mode ‘theft’ | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/672132/news-media-alliance-google-ai-mode-theft] * Details leak about Jony Ive’s OpenAI device | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/672357/openai-ai-device-sam-altman-jony-ive] * DOJ says Google must sell Chrome to crack open monopoly | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/20/24300617/doj-google-search-antitrust-chrome-breakup] * Google Zero is here — now what? | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/24167865/google-zero-search-crash-housefresh-ai-overviews-traffic-data-audience] * Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi is okay reinventing the bus | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel/672087/uber-dara-khosrowshahi-waymo-ai-bus-transit-tesla-self-driving] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Today, I’m talking with Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi. We recorded this conversation on the same day Uber announced a big set of product updates, including new options for shared rides. Dara was in New York for all that, so he came to our studio and we did this one together, which always makes for a great episode.  If you’ve been listening to Decoder recently, you know that I’m very curious about how service apps like Uber will handle things like AI agents. Dara had a lot of thoughts there. There’s a lot in this one, and Dara didn’t hold back. I think you’re going to like it. Links:  * Uber’s new bus-like feature is nearly 50 percent cheaper than UberX | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/665483/uber-go-get-route-share-price-lock-ride-pass] * An interview with Dara Khosrowshahi | Stratechery [https://stratechery.com/2025/an-interview-with-uber-ceo-dara-khosrowshahi-about-aggregation-and-autonomy/] * Uber preps for Waymo’s robotaxi launch in Atlanta | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/google-waymo/669988/uber-preps-for-waymos-robotaxi-launch-in-atlanta] * Uber ends year in the black for the first time ever | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/8/24065999/uber-earnings-profitable-year-net-income] * Uber’s not out of the woods yet | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/8/24151901/uber-q1-2024-earnings-net-loss-profit-settlement-drivers] * UberX Share brings carpooling back to NYC and eight other cities | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/21/23176664/uberx-share-uber-pool-carpooling-shared-rides-new-york-city] * Uber CEO vows to be ‘hardcore’ about costs, slow hiring | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/9/23063499/uber-ceo-slash-costs-hiring-slowdown-ride-hailing-profit] Transcript [https://www.theverge.com/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel/672087/uber-dara-khosrowshahi-waymo-ai-bus-transit-tesla-self-driving] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Today, I’m talking with Kevin Scott, the chief technology officer of Microsoft, and one of the company’s AI leaders. Kevin is one of my favorite repeat Decoder guests, and he joined the show this time to talk about the future of search.  Microsoft just announced an open-source tool for websites to integrate AI powered natural language search with just a little bit of effort, in a way that lets them actually run whatever models they want and keep control of their data. I saw some demos before Kevin and I chatted, and the improvements over the bad local search on most sites was obvious. So we talked about what this will mean for AI, for search engines, and for the future of the web.  Links:  * Microsoft’s plan to fix the web: letting every website run AI search for cheap | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/web/669437/nlweb-microsoft-ai-agents-open-web] * Microsoft Build 2025: news and announcements from the developer conference | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/669382/microsoft-build-2025-news-ai-agents] * Introducing the Model Context Protocol | Anthropic [https://www.anthropic.com/news/model-context-protocol] * Copyright Office head fired after reporting AI training isn’t always fair use | Ars Technica [https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/05/copyright-office-head-fired-after-reporting-ai-training-isnt-always-fair-use/] * Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott on how AI and art will coexist in the future | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/23900198/microsoft-kevin-scott-ai-art-bing-google-nvidia-decoder-interview] * Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott thinks Sydney might make a comeback | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/23733388/microsoft-kevin-scott-open-ai-chat-gpt-bing-github-word-excel-outlook-copilots-sydney] * Microsoft’s CTO explains how AI can help health care in the US right now | Vergecast [https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/7/21210331/vergecast-interview-microsoft-cto-kevin-scott-ai-rural-america-health-care] Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/669409 [https://www.theverge.com/e/669409] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Today, I’m talking with Gerrit Kazmaier, the brand-new president of product and technology at Workday. Gerrit’s new on the job, maybe a little bit braver than most, and to his credit he came on the show and took the heat. We spent a lot of time talking about what enterprise software really is, what it does and why it has a reputation of being so deeply frustrating for so many people.  Links:  * Workday names Gerrit Kazmaier president of product and technology | Workday [https://newsroom.workday.com/2025-02-25-Workday-Names-Gerrit-Kazmaier-President,-Product-and-Technology] * AI Index Report | Stanford HAI [https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2025-ai-index-report] * IBM AI Study | IBM [https://newsroom.ibm.com/2025-05-06-ibm-study-ceos-double-down-on-ai-while-navigating-enterprise-hurdles] * How generative AI will impact the future of work | Workday [https://blog.workday.com/en-us/how-generative-ai-will-impact-the-future-work.html] * Workday launches platform for companies to manage all of their AI agents | TechCrunch [https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/11/workday-launches-a-platform-for-enterprises-to-manage-all-of-their-ai-agents-in-one-place/] * Everyone hates Workday | Business Insider [https://www.businessinsider.com/everyone-hates-workday-human-resources-customer-service-software-fortune-500-2024-5] * Judge: Workday must face novel AI bias lawsuit | Reuters [https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/workday-must-face-novel-bias-lawsuit-over-ai-screening-software-2024-07-15/] * Workday lays off 1,750, 8.5% of employees, in AI push | Associated Press [https://apnews.com/article/workday-layoffs-job-cuts-ai-investments-437581ad79d6e1cef2de7b300015dfbb] * Why Workday's CEO made a layoff decision to invest in AI | FastCompany [https://www.fastcompany.com/91293217/why-workdays-ceo-made-a-tough-layoff-decision-to-invest-in-ai] Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/667538 [https://www.theverge.com/e/667538] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]