Decoder with Nilay Patel

On this episode of Decoder, Ellis Hamburger — former journalist at The Verge, early Snap employee, and founder of the brand strategy studio Meaning — joins guest host Alex Heath to share why many AI founders are missing the bigger picture. Links: * Meaning | Ellis Hamburger [https://meaning.company/] * Social media is doomed to die | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/18/23672769/social-media-inevitable-death-monetization-growth-hacks] * I used the ‘cheat on everything’ AI tool and it didn’t help me cheat on anything | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/654223/cheat-on-everything-ai] * Hideo Kojima sees Death Stranding 2 as a cautionary tale | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/games/691570/hideo-kojima-death-stranding-2] * Apple heard your complaints about the Liquid Glass | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/691540/apple-ios-26-liquid-glass-control-center-fixed-beta] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

It’s summertime, which means it’s time for our annual grilling episode. In years past we’ve talked to the leaders of Big Green Egg, Traeger, and Blackstone, and it’s always fascinating how those companies have all the same kinds of problems and ideas as any of the tech companies we have on the show.  This time, I finally had the opportunity to sit down with SharkNinja CEO Mark Barrocas. We’ve wanted to have SharkNinja on the show for years now, mostly because it has the best name of any company I think we’ve ever had on Decoder — it perfectly describes the structure of the company. And just in time for our grilling episode, the Ninja division of Mark’s business just launched its first ever grill.  Check out the full transcript here on The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel/695613/sharkninja-ceo-mark-barrocas-interview-flexflame-grill-home-appliance]. Links:  * Ninja announces its first ever propane grill with the FlexFlame | Tom’s Guide [https://www.tomsguide.com/home/outdoors/ninja-just-dropped-its-first-propane-grill-the-flexflame-can-smoke-roast-griddle-and-even-replace-your-pizza-oven] * How SharkNinja became a viral marketing machine | Ad Age [https://adage.com/brand-marketing/aa-sharkninja-viral-machine/] * How airfryer brand SharkNinja became a $1bn UK household name | The Sunday Times [https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-airfryer-brand-sharkninja-became-a-1bn-uk-household-name-2c8tw2vfx] * Mark Zuckerberg just declared war on the entire advertising industry | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/meta/659506/mark-zuckerberg-ai-facebook-ads] * Dyson, SharkNinja settle patent lawsuits over bagless vacuums | Bloomberg [https://news.bloomberglaw.com/ip-law/dyson-sharkninja-settle-patent-lawsuits-over-bagless-vacuums] * How arson led to a culture reboot at Traeger | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/23189676/traeger-smart-grills-decoder-company-culture-private-equity-ceo-andrus] * Big Green Egg is inviting zoomers to the cult of kamado cooking | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/24188080/big-green-egg-smoker-grill-cooking-kamado-backyard-dan-gertsacov-fire-fourth-of-july] * How Blackstone became the darling of grill TikTok | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/22583787/blackstone-griddle-roger-dahle-interview-decoder] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Today, I’m talking with Matt Mullenweg, the founder and CEO of Automattic and the public face of WordPress. Last year, Matt essentially went to war, publicly and in the courts, against a hosting company called WP Engine, and there’s been significant fallout at Automattic and the broader WordPress community.   It’s been a long, drawn-out saga. That said, Matt was willing to come on the show and talk through some of this thinking here, why he made some of the decisions he did, and also what he regrets about how some of this went down.  Links:  * The messy WordPress drama, explained | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/27/24256361/wordpress-wp-engine-drama-explained-matt-mullenweg] * Celebrating 20 Years of Automattic | Automattic [https://automattic.com/2025/06/20/automattic-20-years/] * Matt Mullenweg: ‘WordPress.org just belongs to me’ | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/4/24262232/matt-mullenweg-wordpress-org-wp-engine] * Automattic offered employees another chance to quit over | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/17/24272867/automattic-employee-buyout-wordpress-drama] * WordPress owner Automattic is laying off 16 percent of workers | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/642187/automattic-wordpress-layoffs-matt-mullenweg] * Tumblr will move all of its blogs to WordPress | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/28/24230587/tumblr-move-blogs-wordpress-automattic] * Beeper was just acquired by Automattic | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/9/24124179/beeper-app-automattic-acquisition-matrix-messaging] * Automattic acquires relationship manager Clay | TechCrunch [https://techcrunch.com/2025/06/12/automattic-acquires-relationship-manager-clay-to-add-an-identity-layer-to-online-tools/] * How WordPress and Tumblr are keeping the internet weird | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/15/22977857/wordpress-tumblr-simplenote-internet-automattic-matt-mullenweg-interview] * How to buy a social network, with Tumblr CEO Matt Mullenweg | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/23506085/wordpress-twitter-tumblr-ceo-matt-mullenweg-elon-musk] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Today, I’m talking with Hinge founder and CEO Justin McLeod. Hinge is one of the biggest dating apps in the United States — it’s rivaled only by Tinder, and both are owned by the massive conglomerate Match Group, which has consolidated a huge chunk of the online dating ecosystem. Justin and I dug into that here, and we also explored some of the thorny issues around AI and dating, Hinge’s monetization, and data privacy in the second Trump administration. This is a fun one, with a whole lot going on. I think you’ll like it.  Read the full interview transcript here on The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/e/687683]. Links:  * How We Do Things | Hinge [https://hinge.co/mission] * Hinge’s First Gen Z Report | Hinge [https://hinge.co/newsroom/2024-GenZ-Report] * Hinge’s new AI feature judges your prompt responses | TechCrunch [https://techcrunch.com/2025/01/15/hinge-new-ai-feature-determines-if-your-prompt-response-is-too-basic/] * When Cupid Is a prying journalist | NYT / Modern Love [https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/style/modern-love-when-cupid-is-a-prying-journalist.html] * Tinder CEO Faye Iosotaluno to step down in July | CNBC [https://www.cnbc.com/2025/05/22/tinder-ceo-faye-iosotaluno-to-step-down-in-july-.html] * Match Group CEO Rascoff to lead struggling Tinder app | WSJ [https://www.wsj.com/business/tinder-ceo-iosotaluno-to-step-down-match-group-ceo-rascoff-to-be-successor-8204c133] * Replika CEO says it’s okay if we end up marrying AI chatbots | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/24216748/replika-ceo-eugenia-kuyda-ai-companion-chatbots-dating-friendship-decoder-podcast-interview] * Apple ordered to keep web links in the App Store | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/679946/apple-rejected-court-attempt-to-stop-app-store-web-links] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Hey everyone, it’s Nilay. Decoder is on a short summer break right now, but we’ll be back starting June 23 with new episodes, and we’re very excited for what we have on the schedule.  In the meantime, we have an episode from the excellent podcast Stay Tuned with Preet, with host and former U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara. Last month, Preet sat down with former FTC Chair Lina Khan for a pretty high-level discussion about antitrust, monopoly power, and the ongoing shift from both political parties in the United States toward more aggressive, bipartisan regulation of Big Tech. I think you’ll find it really interesting.    Links:  * Stay Tuned with Preet | Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/stay-tuned-with-preet/id1265845136] * Google loses ad tech monopoly case | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/650665/google-loses-ad-tech-antitrust-monopoly-lawsuit] * Judge greenlights FTC’s antitrust suit against Amazon | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/7/24264605/ftc-amazon-antitrust-motion-to-dismiss] * Judge rules that Google ‘is a monopolist’ in US antitrust case | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/5/24155520/judge-rules-on-us-doj-v-google-antitrust-search-suit] * Illegally fired FTC commissioners on Meta, bribes, and fighting for privacy | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel/657115/ftc-bedoya-slaughter-trump-fired-supreme-court-interview] * The case for breaking up Google has never been stronger | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel/654243/jonathan-kanter-antitrust-google-ad-tech-monopoly-doj] * DOJ antitrust chief is ‘overjoyed’ after Google monopoly verdict | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/24215684/doj-jonathan-kanter-antitrust-google-monopoly-verdict-win-decoder-podcast-interview] * DOJ’s Kanter says the antitrust fight against Big Tech is just beginning  | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/24067873/jonathan-kanter-doj-antitrust-google-policy-monopoly-big-tech] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]