Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Podcast

#29-A Mash-up of Topics Raised with me About Sondheim

It’s a mash-up! Producer Dennis Caouki weaves together audio from two recent interviews—one with mathematician Art Benjamin (via the National Museum of Mathematics’ Starring Math webinar series) and one from Shoshana Greenberg’s Scene to Song podcast—into a single conversation. The combined interview explores Sondheim’s connections to math, puzzles, and games; cryptic crosswords; design values like misdirection and accessibility; and how those ideas appear in Sondheim’s work (including Into the Woods, A Little Night Music, Sweeney Todd, Company, and Pacific Overtures). The discussion also touches on Schmigadoon! season two’s Sondheim-inspired mashups, Hadestown, The Last of Sheila, and the Knives Out films as modern homages.   00:00 Podcast Updates Ahead 00:27 Audiobook Booth Stories 03:05 Two Interviews One Episode 05:35 Meet Barry Joseph 08:49 Hadestown As Ritual 10:10 Sondheim And Math Roots 11:45 Math In A Little Night Music 15:28 Into The Woods London Take 19:50 CD-ROM Game That Never Was 22:58 Sondheim Puzzle Design Values 26:15 Treasure Hunt Phone Puzzle 27:58 Puzzles For Anybody 29:13 Matching Minds Explained 29:59 Inside Sondheim’s Mind 31:18 Bernstein Puzzle Rivalry 32:49 Lyrics as Game Design 37:38 Cryptic Crosswords Explained 39:54 Solving a Clue Live 43:27 Games in the Shows 45:57 Knives Out Homages 47:41 Schmigadoon Mashup Magic 53:15 Broadway Hopes and Farewell Special Links: * Scene to Song [https://www.instagram.com/scenetosong/] with Shoshana Greenberg * Art Benjamin - ThatMathShow.com [http://thatmathshow.com/] * Colm Molloy [https://www.colmmolloy.com/] * Ann Morrison [https://www.annmorrison.net/] * Mateo Chavez Lewis [https://www.mateochavezlewis.com/] Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices [https://megaphone.fm/adchoices]

#28-Sondheim and Puzzle Boxes, with David Staller

Our latest episode focuses on Stephen Sondheim’s fascination with puzzle boxes, featuring guest David Staller, founding artistic director of the Gingold Theatrical Group. Staller describes his Shaw-inspired connection to Sondheim through Hermione Gingold, their friendship and correspondence, and Sondheim’s attraction to puzzles as finite, controllable structures that offered relief from the chaos of human relationships and creative pressures. The episode includes rare audio from Sondheim’s Games Magazine interview about collecting and admiring puzzle boxes, plus excerpts from Barry’s interview with puzzle-box designer Kagen Sound (on learning Sondheim was a client and seeing his boxes in the film Six by Sondheim). Staller recounts gifting Sondheim puzzle boxes (including Japanese artisan-made boxes), treasure-hunt parties and movie-themed murder mysteries, a final unopened birthday box returned after Sondheim’s death, and finding a hidden note during the 2024 Doyle auction. He also describes Sondheim’s love for, and association with the boy-star of, the comic strip Calvin and Hobbes.  00:00 Everything Is A Puzzle 01:44 Meet Guest David Staller 02:55 Shaw Connection To Sondheim 05:11 Why Games Felt Safe 07:54 Discovering Puzzle Boxes 08:46 What Puzzle Boxes Are 10:37 Sondheim On Puzzle Boxes 12:47 Voice Memories And Boxes 16:59 Japanese Artisan And Last Box 19:40 Opening The Box Onstage 21:53 What Was Inside The Box 23:25 Treasure Hunts And Movie Trivia 26:04 Thin Man Roleplaying Games 26:44 Movie Roleplay Mystery 28:34 Home Treasure Hunt 30:30 Sondheim Grammar Patrol 32:16 Puzzle Boxes Meaning 33:49 Kagen Sound Spotlight 36:04 Boxes On The Piano 38:04 Auction Hidden Note 39:42 Objects And Legacy 42:22 Calvin And Hobbes 47:31 Life As A Puzzle Special Links: * David Staller [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Staller] * Gingold Theatrical Group [https://gingoldgroup.org/] * Kagen Sound [https://kagensound.com/] * Andrew Parr [https://www.instagram.com/truenorthpuzzles/] * Colm Molloy [https://www.colmmolloy.com/] * Ann Morrison [https://www.annmorrison.net/] * Mateo Chavez Lewis [https://www.mateochavezlewis.com/] Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices [https://megaphone.fm/adchoices]

#27- Two "Little" Sondheim Treasure Hunts

Join Barry Joseph and guests David Spira (Room Escape Artist) and Rachel Allen Duncan (Watson Adventures) to explore why Stephen Sondheim designed treasure hunts for decades, focusing on two with related names: the 1973 A Little Night Music Treasure Hunt at the Shubert Theatre and the 2011 A Little Jurassic Treasure Hunt at the American Museum of Natural History. Performers George Lee Andrews and Marti Morris recall the Shubert cast-party hunt co-devised with Anthony Perkins, where puzzle-photo team formation led to lyric-based clues hidden around the theater. Event producer Brigid Walsh describes producing the 2011 fundraiser hunt hosted by Sarah Jessica Parker and Matthew Broderick for Friends In Deed, including wax-sealed packets, team coordinators, dinosaur-hall clue cards, a meta-puzzle, and a final reveal involving a freight elevator, toy dinosaurs, and a hidden prize. Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, ⁠⁠or click here⁠⁠ [https://amzn.to/3JqL8tN]. 00:00 Sondheim Human Touch 01:43 Meet The Guests 03:24 Two Little Hunts 04:55 Show And Memories 06:43 Cast Interview Begins 11:19 Shubert Hunt Story 15:49 Ice Cream Interlude 17:12 Design Takeaways 24:35 Clue Sheet Breakdown 30:43 Weddings And Hunts 32:48 Wedding Puzzle Talk 33:47 Sondheim Museum Hunt Setup 35:47 Designing the Venue 39:20 Watching Players Lose It 41:55 Why Museums Work 43:46 Dino Hall Game Ideas 46:03 Inside the Hunt Packet 50:49 Rules and Meta Puzzle 55:55 Clues and Cheating 58:44 Spoilers Final Solve 01:01:37 Prizes and Reflections 01:04:15 Sondheim Takeaways 01:06:31 Plugs and Signoff Special Links: * Room Escape Artist [https://roomescapeartist.com/] * Reality Escape Pod [https://roomescapeartist.com/reality-escape-pod/] * Watson Adventures [https://watsonadventures.com] * AMNH Dinosaurs [https://www.amnh.org/dinosaurs] * Colm Molloy [https://www.colmmolloy.com/] * Ann Morrison [https://www.annmorrison.net/] * Mateo Chavez Lewis [https://www.mateochavezlewis.com/] Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices [https://megaphone.fm/adchoices]

#26-Researching Sondheim--A Repod of Matching Minds on the Dr. Broadway Podcast

A conversation about Matching Minds from the Dr. Broadway podcast with Dr. Tracey Brent-Chessum and Dr. Kristin Stultz Pressley, focusing on researching Sondheim’s lifelong puzzle-and-game design—from cryptic crosswords and treasure hunts to Atari sessions with John Weidman, escape rooms, puzzle boxes, and antique board-game collecting—and on Joseph’s methods, interviews, archival work, publishing journey with Applause/Bloomsbury, and ongoing efforts to place materials in institutions like NYPL, the Library of Congress, and the Strong Museum. Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, ⁠⁠or click here⁠⁠ [https://amzn.to/3JqL8tN]. 00:00 Podcast Welcome  03:01 Introducing Dr Broadway 06:14 Barry’s Sondheim Journey 07:25 Games For Change Background 09:35 Atari And Game Mechanics 11:36 Sondheim Designed Games 13:18 Walls Of Antique Boards 15:03 Research Methods Archives 16:18 Pandemic Timeline Interviews 16:43 Tracking Memories Ephemera 17:04 Unlocking Interviews 18:06 Honoring Emotional Memories 18:53 Documenting And Archiving 20:49 Publishing Puzzle Theater Hybrid 23:18 New York Times Breakthrough 25:27 Research Rigor And Impact 26:52 Biggest Sondheim Revelation 28:12 Questions For Sondheim 31:21 Ongoing Projects And Farewell Special Links: * Dr. Broadway Podcast [https://drbroadway.com/podcast/] * Colm Molloy [https://www.colmmolloy.com/] * Ann Morrison [https://www.annmorrison.net/] * Mateo Chavez Lewis [https://www.mateochavezlewis.com/] Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices [https://megaphone.fm/adchoices]

#25-Writing Sondheim: A Conversation with Art Isn't Easy's Daniel Okrent

Dan Okrent visits Matching Minds for his FIRST interview (woot! an exclusive) about his highly anticipated biography “Sondheim: Art Isn’t Easy” (pub. March 17). Okrent explains the project evolved from a short biographical essay into a thematic, research-heavy contemporary biography, drawing on extensive archives and interviews (including 38 people, many close collaborators), with early praise from John Weidman and James Lapine. They discuss why a new Sondheim biography is needed since Meryle Secrest’s work, why James Lapine described it as “The best that has been written about Steve,” the value of Secrest’s Yale interview tapes, and new Library of Congress material clarifying Sondheim’s account of his mother’s letter (“guilt” vs “regret”). Okrent connects Sondheim’s alcoholism, inhibition, revenge themes (notably in “Sweeney Todd”), and life arc from alienation to connection. Finally, Okrent and Barry reflect on their unusual, and quite remarkable, multiyear relationship with each other and with Michael Mitnick that supported both Art Isn’t Easy AND Matching Minds with Sondheim.  Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, ⁠⁠or click here⁠⁠ [https://amzn.to/3JqL8tN]. 00:00 Art From Demons 00:55 Meet Dan Okrent 02:00 The Name Game 03:35 From Essay To Biography 07:39 Why Another Sondheim Book 09:26 Alcohol And Inhibition 12:23 Secrest Tapes At Yale 16:12 Sweeney Todd And Revenge 19:30 The Mother Letter Revisited 25:36 Password And Lee Remick 29:08 Writing For Insiders 29:40 Finding Your Reader 30:15 Writing for Insiders 31:43 The Missing Five Years 33:52 Procrastination or Passion 34:56 Alienation to Connection 36:13 Musicals That Connect 39:20 How Their Books Shaped Each Other 40:17 Archive Treasure Hunts 42:33 What Writing Revealed 43:53 A Collaborative Email Trio 49:53 The Creative New York Blob 51:20 Hopes and Farewell 53:23 Final Thanks and Signoff Special Links: * Dan Okrent [http://www.danielokrent.com] * Colm Molloy [https://www.colmmolloy.com/] * Ann Morrison [https://www.annmorrison.net/] * Mateo Chavez Lewis [https://www.mateochavezlewis.com/] * David Armstron’s Broadway Nation [https://www.broadway-nation.com/] Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices [https://megaphone.fm/adchoices]