Out of Session w/ Kindman and Co.

De-Stigmatizing Everything: What a Queer Wellness Festival Taught Us About Belonging

IN THIS EPISODE: In this episode, Liz and Logan get into what it really felt like to spend a weekend in the desert surrounded by queer community, why spaces like No Other Festival matter more than ever right now, how the experience of seeing all kinds of bodies just existing freely can quietly shift something inside you, and what it brings up when even in the most welcoming spaces, you still find yourself wondering — do I belong here? TOPICS: Community, Queer, Vulnerability, Body Image, Personal Journey, Mental Health Support, Therapists KEY FIGURES: Elizabeth Taylor, AMFT Logan Kim, AMFT, APCC Kindman & Co. KEY TAKEAWAYS: 1. Community care is a practice, not just a feeling. From sharing food and sunscreen to keeping the porta-potties clean, No Other Festival showed that collective care shows up in both the big and the small moments — and that when a community genuinely looks out for one another, it creates something transformative. 2. Seeing diverse bodies can be deeply healing. Being in a space where all kinds of bodies existed freely and unapologetically — different sizes, abilities, scars, trans bodies — quietly challenged internalized shame and created a powerful sense of body neutrality. Bodies are just bodies. They get us from point A to point B. 3. Even welcoming spaces can surface internalized struggles. Both Liz and Logan felt the question "am I queer enough?" arise at the festival — not because anyone made them feel unwelcome, but because internalized heteronormativity, biphobia, and transphobia have a way of following us even into the most affirming spaces. 4. You don't need to earn your belonging. There is no laundry list of criteria that makes your identity valid or your presence justified. You belong simply because you are — and having doubts about that doesn't mean the doubts are true. 5. Queer joy is powerful. Especially right now, the joy that filled Know Other Festival — the frolicking, the laughing, the crying, the realness — was a reminder of what is possible when people are free to show up fully as themselves. That kind of joy is worth seeking out, protecting, and bringing into everyday life. KEY QUOTES: "Everyone was looking out for each other. Here's water, here's electrolytes. That felt really special. I've never been in a space like that." — Liz "These are just bodies. Whatever they look like, they get us from point A to point B and we can dance and we can play and we can frolic and move or lay, whatever it may be." — Liz "There's only certain kinds of bodies that are visible or seen — or deemed acceptable to be visible. So just being able to see all of these different kinds of bodies — big bodies, small bodies, medium bodies, bodies with scars, with top surgery scars, trans bodies — felt like, oh shit. They can have a body and that's great, and maybe I can too." — Logan "I noticed this part of me that comes up that asks — but am I queer enough?" — Logan "I know how sometimes voices project loudest to other people, but don't always come back to us." — Logan CALL TO ACTION: Today's episode is bringing you to Know Other Festival. It's a yearly queer wellness and camping experience rooted in healing, joy, and self-expression. You can find out more and keep up with everything they have coming up at knowotherfestival.com [http://knowotherfestival.com]. We would also like to mention The Collective Coalition San Diego. They are building intentional queer community in San Diego, and they are doing the work of creating the kinds of spaces we were talking about today — inclusive, affirming, and real. You can learn more about them at thecollectivecoalitionsandiego.org [http://thecollectivecoalitionsandiego.org]. Look out for the transcript of this episode on the Kindman & Co. blog [https://www.kindman.co/blog] and sign up for the Kindman & Co. newsletter [https://www.kindman.co/] to stay connected.

Rewiring in Real Time: The Power of Repair

IN THIS EPISODE: In this episode, Sarah, Madison, and Elizabeth get into what rupture really looks like, why repair feels so scary, how to know when a relationship is worth the effort, and what it actually takes to have those hard conversations without blowing everything up. So if you've ever wanted to get better at conflict — or just wondered why it feels so hard — this one's for you. SUMMARY: In this episode of Out of Session with Kindman and Co., therapists Sarah, Madison, and Elizabeth discuss “rupture and repair” in relationships. They define rupture as a disconnect or fracture that can show up as awkward energy, silence, yelling, or a gut sense that something is off, often triggering fear and nervous system responses like fight-or-flight. Repair is described as a courageous, sometimes privileged process of addressing harm through conversation, regulation, and vulnerability, which can create safety, closeness, and a “corrective experience” that rewires expectations over time. TOPICS: Rupture and Repair, Mental Health Support, Community, Therapists KEY FIGURES: Sarah Barukh, ACSW Elizabeth Taylor, AMFT Madison Segarra Kindman & Co. 1. Rupture doesn't always look like a big fight. Rupture can be subtle — a weird energy in the room, a gut feeling that something's off, a quiet disconnect. You don't need to be screaming at each other to be in a rupture. Learning to recognize those smaller moments is the first step toward addressing them. 2. Your nervous system is trying to protect you — but it might be getting in the way. When conflict arises, our bodies go into fight or flight mode almost instantly — especially if we grew up in environments where conflict felt unsafe. That physical response is real and valid, but it can make it nearly impossible to have a productive conversation in the heat of the moment. 3. Space is one of the most powerful repair tools you have. Trying to resolve things when emotions are at their peak rarely works. Giving yourself time to regulate — whether that's a walk, some time alone, or simply breathing — helps bring your prefrontal cortex back online so you can actually think clearly and communicate effectively. 4. Repair can literally rewire your brain. Every time you successfully navigate a rupture and come out the other side, you're sending a new message to your nervous system — that conflict doesn't have to mean abandonment or danger. Over time, this creates a corrective experience that makes hard conversations feel less terrifying and more manageable. 5. Repair requires trust, vulnerability, and a shared intention. The goal of a repair conversation isn't to prove who was right. It's to reaffirm that you care about each other and want the relationship to continue. When both people come to the table with that intention, something really beautiful can happen — even if it's messy getting there. KEY QUOTES: "When it's done, when I've done it and when people have done it to me — it really does feel like a superpower." — Sarah (on the experience of successful repair) "It's kind of rewiring you in real time. I mean, that doesn't get more magical than that." — Sarah “Those ruptures really pushed us to communicate. Figure this the hell out. And we were always stronger after." — Elizabeth “I might want a repair, but that's not always possible.” — Elizabeth (on the honest reality that not every rupture leads to repair) CALL TO ACTION: Today's episode is bringing you to Kindman & Co. If this conversation resonated with you — if you found yourself nodding along, or maybe thinking about a relationship in your life that could use a little repair — just know that that feeling is worth paying attention to. Whether you're navigating a rough patch in a relationship, working through patterns that keep showing up in your life, or just ready to do something kind for yourself — we'd love to be a part of that journey. You can find us at kindman.co [http://kindman.co] or come visit us in Highland Park.

Fixing the Unfixable: We Got This (Even When I Don’t Got It)

IN THIS EPISODE: In this episode of ‘Out of Session’ by Kindman and Co., hosts Paul and Dani sit down in a very real, very human place: tired, grieving, a little cynical, and unsure they “got it” today. What unfolds is an honest conversation about what happens when life hands you things that can’t be fixed — persistent grief, chronic stress, old childhood loneliness, the slow drip of exhaustion. Together, they wrestle with what it means to support clients, friends, and each other when there’s no clear solution. At the heart of the episode is a simple but powerful shift: moving from “I don’t got this” to “We got this.” It’s a conversation about borrowing hope, showing up imperfectly, and discovering that sometimes connection — not fixing — is what actually transforms the moment. TOPICS: Tiredness, Guilt, Self-Care, Personal Journey, Mental Health Support, Community, Hope KEY FIGURES: Paul Kindman, LMFT [https://www.kindman.co/paul-kindman-lmft] Dani Marrufo, LMFT [https://www.kindman.co/dani-marrufo-lmft] Kindman & Co. [https://www.kindman.co/] KEY TAKEAWAYS: 1. Resignation and acceptance are not the same. Both acknowledge that something “is,” but resignation feels hopeless and powerless, while acceptance leaves room for agency, compassion, and even possibility. 2. Not everything in life is fixable — and that’s hard to tolerate. As therapists and as humans, there’s a deep pull to fix pain. But much of life’s suffering (grief, chronic stress, old wounds) requires learning how to carry it, not cure it. 3. Hope can feel complicated. Optimism can be grounding and reassuring — or it can feel dismissive and insincere. There’s a tension between offering validation (“this sucks”) and offering reassurance (“we’ll figure it out”). 4. Borrowed hope is powerful. When “I don’t got this” feels true, shifting to “we got this” can restore a sense of shared strength. Connection expands capacity. 5. Showing up imperfectly can transform the moment. Even when exhausted, grieving, or unsure, choosing to show up — for a friend, a client, or a conversation — can shift the experience from isolation to connection. KEY QUOTES: 1. “It takes a lot of energy just to be a person these days.” — Paul 2. “I know it’s gonna just be there and I think I’m waiting to just hold it differently.” — Dani 3. “Resignation is a relatively hopeless way of approaching something that just is, and acceptance is maybe a slightly more hopeful.” — Paul 4. “If I show up for my friend, it might actually meaningfully transform my experience.” — Paul 5. “I don’t got it.” — Dani CALL TO ACTION: Today's episode is bringing you to a friend you’ve been meaning to text or wanting to show up for. We encourage you to reach out and remember that borrowed hope is powerful and showing up imperfectly can transform the moment.  Look out for the transcript of this episode on the Kindman & Co. blog [https://www.kindman.co/blog] and sign up for the Kindman & Co. newsletter [https://www.kindman.co/] to stay connected.

Workplace Burnout and Mental Health: Why It’s a System Problem, Not a Personal Failure

IN THIS EPISODE: In this episode of ‘Out of Session’ by Kindman and Co., hosts Liam and Sarah dive deep into the systemic nature of burnout. Through personal anecdotes and professional insights, they debunk the myth that burnout is an individual problem and highlight how workplace culture, unrealistic expectations, and lack of community contribute to this pervasive issue. They also discuss the importance of building connections with colleagues and offer practical advice on how to navigate and mitigate burnout. Tune in to explore how to reclaim your well-being in a demanding work environment. TOPICS: Burnout, Tiredness, Guilt, Self-Care, Hyper-Productivity Culture, Personal Journey, Mental Health Support, Systemic Problems, Workplace, Community KEY FIGURES: Liam Degeorgio, AMFT Sarah Barukh, ACSW Kindman & Co. KEY TAKEAWAYS: 1. Burnout is systemic, not personal. Burnout isn’t caused by individual weakness or poor coping—it’s driven by structural issues like workload expectations, productivity metrics, and organizational priorities. 2. Isolation makes burnout worse.  When workplaces discourage connection or leave no energy for relationships, people are more likely to internalize blame and feel alone in their struggle. 3. Work culture trains us to ignore our own needs. When energy reserves are empty, reaching out to friends, returning calls, or engaging in meaningful connection can feel overwhelming—often accompanied by guilt for wanting what you can’t access. 4. Self-care advice often shifts responsibility away from broken systems. Productivity hacks and “fix yourself” solutions place the burden back on individuals instead of addressing the workplace conditions causing burnout. 5. Technology keeps people psychologically on the clock. Constant accessibility through phones and email erodes real downtime, making recovery from work stress increasingly difficult. 6. Connection and collective action are powerful antidotes to burnout. Community—whether through coworkers, shared experiences, or organized action—helps reduce self-blame and creates pathways for meaningful change. KEY QUOTES: 1. “Burnout is a system problem, not a you problem.” — Sarah 2. “There’s nothing more nihilistic than reducing life to something that needs to be optimized.” — Liam 3. “If these corporations are treating us like machines, then we see ourselves as machines” — Sarah 4. “I realized now, I mean, it is structural. The expectations of the company are not about helping people heal. It’s a numbers game.” — Sarah 5. “Nothing has an intrinsic meaning, and that encourages us to ask: whose values are these that I’m living by?” — Liam CALL TO ACTION: Today's episode is bringing you to the book, “Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle” by Emily Nagoski, PhD and Amelia Nagoski DMA. [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42397849-burnout] In this book they talk about what you can do to complete the biological stress cycle—and return your body to a state of relaxation, how to manage the “monitor” in your brain that regulates the emotion of frustration, and much more. Interested in learning more about the Kaiser Permanente mental health workers that Sarah was talking about? Check out this article. [https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/kaiser-permanente-mental-health-workers-contract-southern-california/747638/] Look out for the transcript of this episode on the Kindman & Co. blog [https://www.kindman.co/blog] and sign up for the Kindman & Co. newsletter [https://www.kindman.co/] to stay connected.

Rest Rebels: Choosing Rest in a World That Prioritizes Hyper-Productivity

IN THIS EPISODE: In this episode of ‘Out of Session’ by Kindman and Co., hosts Kaitlin, Dani, and Clarissa discuss the concepts of compassion fatigue, guilt, and shame, while reflecting on societal and cultural narratives around rest and productivity. The therapists underscore the importance of intentional rest as a form of resistance against the pressures of hyper-productivity and capitalist culture, and advocate for self-care despite feelings of guilt or inadequacy. TOPICS: Tiredness, Guilt, Self-Care, Exhaustion, Rest, Hyper-Productivity Culture, Personal Journey KEY FIGURES: Kaitlin Kindman, LCSW Dani Marrufo, LMFT Clarissa Santisteban Kindman & Co. CALL TO ACTION: Today's episode is bringing you to a couple different places! First, Weezie, who is the ultimate ‘rest rebel’, is bringing you to MaeDay Rescue. Founded by Natalie Garcia, MaeDay Rescue is 501C3 nonprofit, and started as a one-woman mission to help abandoned dogs. Since then it has grown into a full-scale rescue effort built on collaboration, education and heart. You can view their website at maedayrescue.com [http://maedayrescue.com]. Weezie would also like you to check out Kitten Rescue Los Angeles. Kitten Rescue is a non-profit, volunteer based organization devoted to finding loving homes for unwanted, homeless cats and kittens in LA. They educate the public about responsible pet guardianship, how to care for kittens and cats, and the importance of spaying and neutering. Kitten Rescue makes educational material available via events, print, school presentations and on their website at kittenrescue.org [http://kittenrescue.org]. We would also like to bring you to The Nap Ministry. Founded by Tricia Hersey [http://www.triciahersey.com/about.html?fbclid=IwAR3GWS8OFRMJNVJ356VzZe_O7LW1lBxspHcxd73ez1w9mq01RSAzt07zX-A], The Nap Ministry is a community installation that examines the liberating power of naps. They believe rest is a form of resistance and install Collective Napping Experiences for the community to rest together in a safe space. Follow them on Instagram at The Nap Ministry [instagram.com/thenapministry]. Be sure to check out our blog at Kindman & Co. blog [https://www.kindman.co/blog] - Paul Kindman has a post on Rest, Its Many Facets and the Consequences of Rest Neglect. [https://www.kindman.co/blog/7-different-types-of-rest] You can also find the full transcript of this episode there as well.