The Way Out Is In

Cultivating Joy and Togetherness in the Midst of Hardship (Episode #95)

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh [https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/]’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. This is the recording of our second live public event, which recently took place in London. Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu [https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/br-phap-huu/] and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino [https://www.instagram.com/joconfino/?hl=en] are joined on stage by special guest Ocean Vuong [https://www.oceanvuong.com/], Vietnamese American poet, essayist, and novelist. Their conversation explores the themes of joy, togetherness, and cultivating courage in the face of hardship and suffering; the role of language, narrative, and technology in shaping modern experiences of suffering and joy; intergenerational trauma; and more. All three share personal experiences and insights about finding meaning and community amidst individual and collective challenges. Ocean recollects the way that, growing up in a community impacted by the opioid crisis, Buddhism and the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh provided solace and a path to understanding suffering, while Brother Phap Huu reflects on his journey to become a Zen Buddhist monk, and the role of kindness, fearlessness, and vulnerability in his practice.  The discussion culminates with a chant offered by Ocean as a message of hope and resilience in the face of adversity. ---------------------------------------- Co-produced by the Plum Village App: https://plumvillage.app/ [https://plumvillage.app/]   Plum Village UK https://plumvillage.uk/ [https://plumvillage.uk/] And Global Optimism: https://globaloptimism.com/ [https://globaloptimism.com/] With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation: https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ [https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/] Photo credit: Wayne Price ---------------------------------------- List of resources Ocean Vuong  https://www.oceanvuong.com [https://www.oceanvuong.com] Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/ [https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/]   Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/ [https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/]  Interbeing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing]  W. S. Merwin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._S._Merwin [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._S._Merwin]  Harry Beecher Stowe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Beecher_Stowe [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Beecher_Stowe]  Tom Brokaw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brokaw [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brokaw] Duḥkha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du%E1%B8%A5kha [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du%E1%B8%A5kha]  Ford Model T https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T]  The Dhammapada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhammapada [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhammapada]  Anaphora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphora_(rhetoric) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphora_(rhetoric)]  Schadenfreude https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude]  ‘Bright Morning Star’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_Morning_Star [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_Morning_Star]  ‘The Five Earth Touchings’ https://plumvillage.org/key-practice-texts/the-five-earth-touchings [https://plumvillage.org/key-practice-texts/the-five-earth-touchings]  ---------------------------------------- Quotes “When drinking water, remember the source.” “On the last day of the world / I would want to plant a tree / what for / not for the fruit […] / I want the tree that stands / in the earth for the first time / with the sun already / going down” – from ‘Place’ by W.S. Merwin.  “Being a Vietnamese person in the diaspora, for many of us, the temple or the church or what have you is the place where we hear Vietnamese at the longest unbroken duration. Whereas someone native to Vietnam would hear it all the time. So, to this day, the Vietnamese language, to me, elicits this collective desire to heal and understand suffering. And it’s very specific to the immigrant. It’s what I call a third culture: there’s nothing like it in the homeland; there’s nothing like it in the assimilated American ethos. But there’s this special place that displacement and violence created.”  “In Plum Village, when I first entered, I was 13 years old, and I touched a kind of kindness that I’d never touched before. And I asked myself whether I could be a kind person. I think I’m good; I think I’m going to have a career of offering smiles.”  “I invite us, as a collective, to invoke this peace that we can bring in our hearts and into the world at this moment. Body, speech, and mind in perfect oneness. I send my heart along with the sound of this bell. May the hearers awaken from forgetfulness and transcend the path of anxiety and sorrow.” “Just a smile can save someone’s life.” “Technology was supposed to bring us together. This is the promise of the Enlightenment. But it’s interesting that all technological movements or renaissances are controlled by the wealthy and the elites. So what I’m interested in, as a writer, as a teacher, is that so much of our world is about material resources and narrative. And this is why I tell my students, ‘They shame you for being a poet, for being a writer: “Oh, you’re doing this liberal arts, naval-gazing, decadent thing, dreaming”’ – but the politicians and the elites are poets too. The greatest political speech is the anaphora. Walt Whitman used it as a catalog, but you hear it: ‘We will heal the working class, we will heal the great divide, I will solve, we will heal this country’s heart, we will heal the middle class.’ And that’s why the anaphora is so useful: because it doesn’t have to explain itself.”  “All those in power are also poets. They’re manipulating meaning, but for votes, for profit, for power, towards fascism. And no wonder the system is designed to make you ashamed to be an artist. It’s so interesting, isn’t it, that, in the art world, we’re often asked to be humble, to be grateful for a seat at the table; to perform humility. And I think humility is good; as a Buddhist, I believe in it, but there is a discrepancy here: we never tell people on Wall Street to be humble. You never hear someone say, ‘You know what, we killed it last quarter, so let’s tone it down and be grateful that we have a seat at the economic table.’” “Kindness is more difficult now than ever because I think kindness is something that is deeply dependent on our proximity to suffering. It’s harder for us to comprehend suffering, now. Schadenfreude is in our hands and it’s always easier to see. We’ve normalized suffering so much that we’ve been disassociated from it.”  “We speak about inclusiveness and equanimity in Buddhism, but we’re not equal. Some of us are born in places where we have more privileges: in a particular race, in a particular situation, in a particular year. But what is equal is, as human beings, we’re all going to grow old, we’re all going to get sick, we’re all going to have to let go of what we think is permanent. And we’re going to learn to live deeply in the present moment.”  “Sadness becomes not just a feeling, but knowledge. So think about sadness as knowledge, as potential, and that anger even has an aftermath. And you realize that the aftermath of anger is care.” “The big trouble with masculinity is that we are not given the ability or the permission to feel and be vulnerable – but we are encouraged to have absolute agency. It’s incredible. It’s a perfect storm of violence: ‘Don’t feel, don’t interrogate, and don’t be vulnerable. But, meanwhile, go get ‘em, buddy.’” “Under our greatest fear is our greatest strength.”  “Camus says that writing itself is optimism, because it’s suffering shared. Even if you write about the darkest things, it is optimistic because someone else will recognize it. And recognition is a democratic ideal, because it means that one feeling could then be taken and collaborated with.”  “It’s really hard to convince people to go to war, historically. You need a lot of text, you need a lot of airwaves, you need a lot of speeches to convince people to go to war – but it’s very easy to convince people to stop war. Very easy for people to stop armament. Difficult for folks who are in control to keep it up, but if you ask the general population, ‘Do you want peace?’, it’s quick. So that gives me a little hope.”  “In fast food is a kind of sinister beauty, because it’s an industrialized promise of absolute replication of fulfillment – and yet it’s a kind of poison as well. It’s like the ultimate democratic ideal, sadly: we can’t have equality, income equality, or healthcare, but we can all eat McDonald’s French fries, and, whether you’re a billionaire or a houseless person, it will taste the same. Likewise with Coca-Cola, etc. In a way it’s the sinister capaciousness of the American dream: you can all feel the same thing while you’re all slowly dying.”

Silence (Episode #94)

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh [https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/]’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu [https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/br-phap-huu/] and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino [https://www.instagram.com/joconfino/?hl=en] explore the importance of silence and its role in personal transformation and spiritual practice.  They further discuss noble silence in the Plum Village tradition – a fundamental practice that allows for deep reflection, self-awareness, and connection with the present moment; silence as a space that enables practitioners to listen deeply; the challenges of silence; the contrast between the mainstream emphasis on productivity, noise, and external validation, and the Buddhist approach of valuing stillness, presence, and inner listening as a path to true well-being and happiness; silence as a means to engage more deeply with life, rather than as an escape; embodied listening; and more.  The episode concludes with an invitation to take time for silent reflection and to explore the transformative power of silence in our lives. Enjoy! ---------------------------------------- Co-produced by the Plum Village App: https://plumvillage.app/ [https://plumvillage.app/]   And Global Optimism: https://globaloptimism.com/ [https://globaloptimism.com/] With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation: https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ [https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/] ---------------------------------------- List of resources Interbeing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing]    Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/ [https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/]   Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/ [https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/]  Buddha Path  https://buddhapath.com [https://buddhapath.com] ‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’ https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village [https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village]    Brother Spirit https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linh [https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linh]  Brother Phap Ung https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-chan-phap-ung [https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-chan-phap-ung]  ‘Three Resources Explaining the Plum Village Tradition of Lazy Days’ https://plumvillage.app/three-resources-explaining-the-plum-village-tradition-of-lazy-days/ [https://plumvillage.app/three-resources-explaining-the-plum-village-tradition-of-lazy-days/]  Tao Te Ching  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_Ching [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_Ching] Bimbisara https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimbisara [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimbisara] Devadatta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devadatta [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devadatta] ---------------------------------------- Quotes “When we learn to allow ourselves to be in silence, the silence becomes delicious because it gives us an immense feeling of spaciousness. But silence is also very scary if we are not trained in it – scary because we get to see our restlessness.”  “The silence that we are learning to cultivate is the stillness that we all need.”  “When we engage with the world, we don’t know how to be silent. That is not engaged Buddhism. That is not applied Buddhism. So the middle way is very important. Silence is not to suppress or to bypass what is going on; in our practice, there’s a space and time for everything.” “Silence allows us spaces of deep reflection. Silence is also to hear ourselves.” “Noble silence is the silence of being present.” “There’s a lot to learn in silence, and a lot to discover, as well as to celebrate.”  “The silence of listening is an art form and a practice of embodied listening. And that means that we’re not just listening with our minds, but that we need to learn to listen with our whole body.” “We’re not here trying to gain more to enhance our ‘label’; actually, Zen is about seeing our label and letting it go, in order to see our wholeness. Because our wholeness is not limited to ‘I am a monk’, ‘I am a journalist’, ‘I am a coach’, ‘I am a business leader’, ‘I am my technician’. We’re so much more than this.”  “Learn to let go. That’s the hardest practice.” “A lotus to you, a Buddha to be.”  “Don’t just do something, sit there.”  “There’s nothing to learn, but there is a lot to unlearn. Because, actually, when we strip away all the fears, judgments, and sufferings, home is already there. It’s already present, it’s never gone away; we just traveled a long way from it.” “So much of life is about feeling safe, and about knowing that we’re not on our own and that we are going to be supported.”  “Colors blind the eye. Sounds deafen the ears. Flavors numb the taste. Thoughts weaken the mind. Desires wither the heart. The Master observes the world, but trusts his inner vision. He allows things to come and go. His heart is as open as the sky” – from the Tao Te Ching [https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/100074], credited to Lao Tzu. “There is no way to happiness; happiness is the way.”

Guest Episode: Buddhist Practices for Busyness, Overwhelm & Burnout

This week, we are delighted to share an episode of the 10% Happier [https://www.danharris.com/s/10-happier] podcast, which is hosted by bestselling author Dan Harris [https://www.danharris.com/] and features world-class insights and practices from experts in modern science and ancient wisdom.  Dan’s guest, for the second time, is Zen Buddhist monk and Way Out Is In co-host Brother Phap Huu [https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/br-phap-huu], who discusses his burnout and how he recovered – and how you can, too. The episode was recorded during early summer 2025, and first released on July 2nd 2025. Together, Dan and Brother Phap Huu discuss: * Why people are busier and more susceptible to overwhelm than ever before  * Why monastics aren’t immune to burnout * The way that  busyness is thrust upon us by contemporary lifestyles, but is also a result of us running away from the things we don’t want to face * Practical tools for addressing busyness and burnout  * Why doing nothing is an art * The importance of perspective – and how contemplating your mortality can provide this  * The practice of total relaxation * How to maintain healthy boundaries without adopting mental armor * Ways to say no without annoying people *  How to protect ourselves in toxic environments. And much more. Related Episodes: ‘The Buddhist Case for Laziness (And How It Can Make You More Productive) | Brother Chân Pháp Hữu [https://www.danharris.com/p/the-buddhist-case-for-laziness-and-b68?utm_source=publication-search]’ ‘Your Negative, Ruminating Mind: Here’s Your Way Out | Sister Dang Nghiem [https://www.danharris.com/p/your-negative-ruminating-mind-heres]‘ ‘The Antidote to Mindless Eating with Br. Chan Pháp Lưu’ [https://www.danharris.com/p/the-antidote-to-mindless-eating-with] ‘Six Buddhist Strategies for Getting Along Better with Everyone | Sister True Dedication’ [https://www.danharris.com/p/six-buddhist-strategies-for-getting-502] ‘How to Suffer Well – So You Can Suffer Less | Brother Pháp Dung’ [https://www.danharris.com/p/how-to-suffer-well] ---------------------------------------- Co-produced by the Plum Village App: https://plumvillage.app/ [https://plumvillage.app/]   And Global Optimism: https://globaloptimism.com/ [https://globaloptimism.com/] With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation: https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ [https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/] ---------------------------------------- List of resources  10% Happier with Dan Harris https://www.danharris.com/s/10-happier [https://www.danharris.com/s/10-happier]  Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/ [https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/]   Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/ [https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/]  Interbeing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing]  Brené Brown https://brenebrown.com/ [https://brenebrown.com/]  ‘Daily Contemplations on Impermanence & Interbeing’ https://plumvillage.org/daily-contemplations-on-impermanence-interbeing [https://plumvillage.org/daily-contemplations-on-impermanence-interbeing]  ‘Recommendation’ (poem) https://plumvillage.org/articles/recommendation [https://plumvillage.org/articles/recommendation] Thay’s Poetry: ‘Please Call Me by My True Names’ (song and poem) https://plumvillage.org/articles/please-call-me-by-my-true-names-song-poem [https://plumvillage.org/articles/please-call-me-by-my-true-names-song-poem] ---------------------------------------- Quotes “To cope with fears and insecurities, the premature hero has to stay busy all the time. The destructive capacity of nonstop busyness rivals nuclear weapons and is as addictive as opium. It empties the life of the spirit. False heroes find it easier to make war than deal with the emptiness in their souls.” “There is a lot of suffering right here, right now, but it is still our responsibility to be able to see the beauty in life, to see the joy and to cultivate happiness: the little things that can spark our creativity, our foundation of love. We are not limited by suffering. We contain the potential for so many offerings that we can give to ourselves and to the world.”  “When in chaos, come back to the fundamentals of the things that gave you joy and that gave you life.”  “The First Remembrance is that we are all of the nature to grow old; none of us can escape growing old. The Second Remembrance is we are all of the nature to get ill; none can escape that. The Third Remembrance is that all of us have to die; none of us can escape death. The Fourth Remembrance is that everything that we cherish today is of the nature of impermanence; we will have to learn to let go. And the Fifth Remembrance is the way forward; it gives us an insight into continuation. And that is our truest belonging: our legacies.” “Karma means action. And that action is the thought that we produce every day, the words that we speak every day, and how we behave in our way of being: the way we show up, the way we open a door, the way we tend to someone, the way we care for our loved ones or the environment. They are all our truest belongings that will be transmitted and will, in a way, be passed down from generation to generation.”  “Everything that exists in this moment is of the nature of impermanence. Nothing can stay the same.” “No mud, no lotus.”

The Art of Transmission (Episode #93)

Welcome to the 93rd episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh [https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/]’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu [https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/br-phap-huu/] and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino [https://www.instagram.com/joconfino/?hl=en] explore the art of transmission in Buddhism: wisdom and teachings being passed down over time, from teacher to student.  The hosts touch on the profound and nuanced ways in which Buddhist teachings and insights are passed down through generations, with the goal of cultivating understanding, compassion, and liberation; the role of nature as a powerful transmitter of wisdom; the significance of rituals and ceremonies in honoring this transmission; and more. Brother Phap Huu emphasizes the importance of deep listening, humility, and direct experience in the transmission process, and how true transmission goes beyond the imparting of knowledge, to a requirement that both teacher and student be in a state of non-self and openness to receive the teachings.  Enjoy! ---------------------------------------- Co-produced by the Plum Village App: https://plumvillage.app/ [https://plumvillage.app/]   And Global Optimism: https://globaloptimism.com/ [https://globaloptimism.com/] With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation: https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ [https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/] ---------------------------------------- List of resources  Live show: The Way Out Is In podcast with special guest Ocean Vuong plumvillage.uk/livepodcast [http://plumvillage.uk/livepodcast] Interbeing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing]    ‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’ https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village [https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village]    Dharma Talk: ‘The Five Powers: Faith, Diligence, Mindfulness, Concentration, Insight – Brother Phap Huu’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4PGrMjea7A [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4PGrMjea7A] Album: A Cloud Never Dies https://plumvillage.org/album-a-cloud-never-dies [https://plumvillage.org/album-a-cloud-never-dies] The Way Out Is In: ‘Feel It to Heal It: The Dharma of Music (Episode #79)’ https://plumvillage.org/podcast/feel-it-to-heal-it-the-dharma-of-music-episode-79 [https://plumvillage.org/podcast/feel-it-to-heal-it-the-dharma-of-music-episode-79]  Dharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths [https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths]  ---------------------------------------- Quotes “Live happily in the present moment: ‘I have arrived; I am home.’”  “If we truly receive the Dharma, honestly and openly, by its nature we want to share it. It doesn’t start with us, doesn’t end with us. Instead, we are part of this extraordinary flow of life.” “Listening is the first doorway to communication. And many of us think that communication is about speaking or writing. But the foundation for speaking and for writing is listening.”  “When the Buddha embarked on a spiritual quest, he was looking for an understanding of suffering and a liberation from suffering. And the way of liberation from suffering is to be in suffering, to understand suffering, to embrace it and not run away from it, but transform it. Therefore, Buddhism is a way of life. So mindfulness is a way of life. Transmission is a way of life.” “When you hear the sound of the bell in the Plum Village tradition, you’re invited to pause and stop what you’re doing. Even if you’re listening to music, or having a wonderful, insightful conversation, you are invited to pause, to stop. And that stopping is a transmission of knowing how to cultivate stillness in life, in order to listen.”  “What we say, how we say it, and the tone of saying it creates a reality. That creates a transmission of knowledge, a transmission of feelings, a transmission of energy.”  “Buddhism is a very generous tradition. The Buddha offers, the teachers offer – and you’re the receiver. You can receive. Using the language of ‘I am receiving’ is very different from ‘I am taking.’ Or, even worse, ‘I am stealing.’ Because stealing indicates that something is now yours; it belongs to you. But when you receive, you gain a responsibility to transmit.” “To receive, we have to ask.”

Trauma and Collective Healing (Episode #92)

Welcome to episode 92 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh [https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/]’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu [https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/br-phap-huu/] and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino [https://www.instagram.com/joconfino/?hl=en] are joined by special guest Jo-ann Rosen. Together, they discuss individual and collective trauma and how mindfulness and neuroscience can help address it. The conversation further explores the concepts of current and historical trauma, how the nervous system can become overwhelmed by modern stresses, the courage required to be vulnerable and honest about our suffering, how this can lead to deeper connections and understanding within a community – and more. Jo-ann, a psychotherapist with expertise in trauma and mindfulness, shares her personal journey of discovering the Plum Village tradition and how it has informed her understanding of trauma. She emphasizes the importance of collective healing, drawing from her work with marginalized communities and the power of creating safe spaces for people to share their experiences and find support in each other. Brother Phap Huu also shares his experiences of supporting the Plum Village monastic community and retreatants in cultivating stability and healing through mindfulness practices. Bio Dharma Teacher Jo-ann Rosen [https://www.parallax.org/authors/jo-ann-rosen/], True River of Understanding, Chan Tue Ha (pronouns she/her), received the Lamp of Wisdom (symbolizing the transmission of Dharma from Zen Master to disciple) and authorization to teach from Thich Nhat Hanh in 2012. She practices with the EMBRACE and Victoria Sanghas, is a licensed marriage and family therapist, and teaches and lectures internationally, focusing on inner stability and community resiliency. Her writings center on a neuroscience-informed and trauma-sensitive approach to individual practice and collective awakening. She lives with her partner of 40 years in the oak woodlands of Northern California, US.  Photo by Leslie Kirkpatrick ---------------------------------------- Co-produced by the Plum Village App: https://plumvillage.app/ [https://plumvillage.app/]   And Global Optimism: https://globaloptimism.com/ [https://globaloptimism.com/] With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation: https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ [https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/] ---------------------------------------- List of resources  Live show: The Way Out Is In podcast with special guest Ocean Vuong plumvillage.uk/livepodcast [http://plumvillage.uk/livepodcast] Embrace Sangha https://www.embracesangha.org/ [https://www.embracesangha.org/]  Unshakeable: Trauma-Informed Mindfulness for Collective Awakening https://www.parallax.org/product/unshakeable [https://www.parallax.org/product/unshakeable] On the Plum Village App [https://plumvillage.app/] > Meditations > Trauma Informed Practice Interbeing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing]   The Miracle of Mindfulness https://plumvillage.shop/products/books/personal-growth-and-self-care/the-miracle-of-mindfulness-2 [https://plumvillage.shop/products/books/personal-growth-and-self-care/the-miracle-of-mindfulness-2] Dharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths [https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths]  Thich Nhat Hanh: Redefining the Four Noble Truths https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eARDko51Xdw [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eARDko51Xdw]  ‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’ https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village [https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village]  ---------------------------------------- Quotes “The nervous system evolves very slowly. It doesn’t change overnight. Ten thousand years is nothing in terms of your nervous system changing. So this nervous system I’m running around in is evolved for a hunter-gatherer. It’s not evolved for being in a car at a stoplight or having somebody demand things of me that I’m incapable of doing. Then I start to be nervous as if I’m going to die. That’s so bewildering. So as I learned more and more about the neuroscience, it was this great relief: ‘I’m not broken. I’m okay. I don’t have to hide what I can’t do.’”  “We’re all suffering from the expectation that we can function in this crazy world when our nervous system is not made for unrelenting stresses. And when we experience unrelenting stresses without good social support, our nervous system is overwhelmed and expresses that in a variety of ways. But the first line of what this neuroscience stuff can do is make us realize that we’re acting normally in a very tragic situation that we’re just not made for.”  “I really shy away from the word ‘trauma’, because it has a very particular spin right now. That’s not to say that deep-trauma therapists and super astute neuroscientists in labs and scanners, et cetera, aren’t making a huge contribution to the understanding of trauma. But I would like to take the word out and instead say, ‘We’re dealing with things that we’re not built for.’” “To put it crudely, the nervous system creates certain states of mind that are purely about well-being – and we can savor those. But then we have certain states of mind which require more alertness and more activity in our bodies. That’s not bad; we have all the mental formations in there and can handle it without being carried away. And one of the things that neuroscience can bring to our understanding of Thay’s teachings is a little better sense of, ‘What does it mean to be carried away? How can I tell when I’m carried away?’ Because that’s really foundational in our practice.” “Is our practice something that will heal traumas? Well, sometimes. And sometimes not. So it’s not an ‘either’ or ‘but’; what we’ve been working with is how to help ourselves regulate our nervous systems so we can practice, because practice is so much bigger than any trauma that we have.”  “Mindfulness means that you can be triggered, but know how to be with the emotions that are being triggered – so that you can be a part of the world, engaging with the world, engaging with yourself.”  “To walk together, that’s very healing. To listen together, to feel safe, that’s very healing. And that is teaching our nervous system the feeling of safety, to allow us to also touch our empathy. So, when we see others who are not in safety, we have empathy; we want to do everything in our capacity to transform that part of society.”  “There is no way to healing; healing is the way.”