Were We Lucky, or Were We Good?

Episode 9 - A Behavioral Incident, or an Organizational Incident? (Chris Bartram)

Guest: Chris Bartram Outdoor Educator, Mountain Guide and Risk Management Consultant Chris Bartram revisits a challenging experience from early in his outdoor education career, struggling with group dynamics and threatening, disruptive behavior from a student. In revisiting the story, the conversation shifts from a simple story of blame, to a more complex story of organizational, administrative, and environmental factors that contributed to the group's challenges. Applying a systems-thinking lens, Chris explores deeper lessons learned from the event, and wraps up with focused advice for organizational leaders and managers to learn from his experience. Chapters 00:00 Introductions 01:37 Student Behavioral Challenges 04:45 Group Dynamics 07:46 Behavior Management and Health Concerns 11:57 A Brief Change in Student Behavior... 12:56 Analysis of the Incident 22:31 Were we lucky, or good? 32:32 Advice - Listening to the Front Line Workers 33:33 Positive Capacities

Episode 8 - The Costs, and Gifts, of Outdoor Incidents (Tracy Rekart)

Episode 8 - The Costs, and Gifts, of Outdoor Incidents (Tracy Rekart) Guest: Tracy Rekart Tracy Rekart [https://www.tracyrekart.com/] shares a powerful story of a climbing incident, lessons learned about risk, communication, and resilience. This episode explores how to handle failure, recognize biases, and pursue recovery after a critical incident occurs. Her story is filled with insights, clarity, courage, and vulnerability, all of which provide useful takeaways for outdoor & experiential educators. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest 01:12 Tracy's Climbing Incident: A Personal Story 09:00 Reflections on the Incident and Lessons Learned 12:55 Communication and Safety in Outdoor Education 17:09 The Aftermath: Recovery and Relationship Growth 19:39 A Dream of Healing 20:28 Finding a New Home and Life Choices 21:45 The Importance of Presence in Recovery 23:25 Learning from Vulnerability and Holding Space 24:43 Cognitive Biases in Outdoor Education 27:24 The Substitution Effect in Decision Making 30:26 FailSafe vs. Fail Safely 31:48 Excavating for Risks and Final Thoughts Learn more about Tracy and her work at https://www.tracyrekart.com/ [https://www.tracyrekart.com/]

Mini Episode #1 - Don't Mistake Outcomes for Process (Matt Baker-White)

Welcome to our first mini-episode, live from the lighthouse at Mukilteo, Washington State! In this brief conversation, Matt Baker-White, an early adopter of our "Lucky or Good" approach, explains the difference between focusing on outcomes versus focusing on effective processes in his work at the Wild Rockies Field Institute [https://www.wrfi.net/].

Episode 7 - Listening to Weak Signals (Gareth Lock)

How Vulnerability and Listening to Weak Signals Can Save Lives: A Conversation with Gareth Lock  In this episode, Gareth Lock (from the Human Diver) shares a powerful personal story about a near-fatal cardiac event and explores how vulnerability, systems thinking, and recognizing weak signals can improve safety in outdoor and diving environments. Key Topics: * Gareth’s personal experience with a critical cardiac event and key lessons learned * The importance of listening to weak signals and small cues in safety management * How vulnerability models foster a safety culture that encourages speaking up * The concept of local rationality and understanding decision-making in context * Contrasting linear risk analysis with holistic systems thinking approaches * The benefits of framing risk positively: beneficial risks and growth opportunities * Fail-safe design principles: creating resilient systems that recover gracefully * The role of cognitive biases like hindsight bias and ways to counteract them * Applying safety science concepts to outdoor education and adventure activities * The significance of language and shared vocabulary in safety conversations Resources & Links: * Gareth Lock - The Human Diver [https://thehumandiver.com/]

Episode 6- Failing Forward (Jaime Overmyer)

In the world of adaptive outdoor education, the balance between safety and adventure is tenuous. One common challenge that many organizations face is the fear of failure among staff, especially in high-consequence situations. In this post, we’ll explore insights shared by Jaime Overmeyer of the Breckenridge Outdoor Education Center on how to transform the stigma of failure into a powerful tool for growth, confidence, and innovation. By creating a balance between clear policies with trust and flexibility for innovation, Jaime describes how she has built an organizational mindset of "failing forward" on the pathway of continuous improvement.