Art & Science of Complex Sales

Fred Copestake [https://www.linkedin.com/in/fredcopestake/], founder of Brindis [https://www.linkedin.com/company/brindis/] and the author of Ethical Selling [https://www.amazon.com/Ethical-Selling-business-doing-right/dp/B0DNCVT8MW/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&dib_tag=se&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.D0edZzmAqjahtX1myIFg1w.pr9Z1S5j_pRB31gddC3UX53ggt2b104KXcPndS1J-II&qid=1750839941&sr=8-1], joins us to share his groundbreaking approach to sales that prioritizes integrity and empathy over traditional tactics. He challenges conventional norms through his fascinating use of reverse psychology, offering salespeople a fresh perspective on how to engage with clients. Fred introduces his "ethical model," providing listeners with practical strategies to incorporate ethical practices into their sales processes and handle common objections from sales leaders with confidence.

Paul Fuller and Mike Simmons [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikesimmons/], founder of Catalyst Sales [https://www.findmycatalyst.com/], dive deep into transforming sales forecasting by focusing on just two critical metrics: pipeline created and pipeline developed. Mike mentions that sales teams today are overwhelmed with data but lack actionable insights. The conversation highlights the power of simplifying complex systems and introducing clarity through well-defined, binary, past-tense sales stages. They explore three essential, interlocking sales processes: 1. The rep’s personal workflow (Identify, Engage, Establish Objectives, Clarify Next Steps, Call to Action). 2. The formal sales process used for forecasting. 3. The customer’s decision-making journey. Mike explains how companies often struggle with unreliable forecasts, bloated pipelines, and ambiguous stage definitions. The root cause is typically a lack of structure and alignment between sales strategy, execution, and tools. He makes a compelling case for treating CRM as a behavior-guiding system, not just a data repository. They also discuss the importance of consistent metrics across teams, tailored KPIs per rep, clear ICP qualifications, and involving cross-functional teams in revenue operations. The episode closes with a strong recommendation: simplify, track the right metrics, and align the entire organization around them to achieve predictable growth.

In this episode, Paul Fuller is joined by Mike Koory [https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelkoory/], founder & CEO of Blue SalesFly, to talk about his new book, The Guide Selling System [https://www.amazon.com.au/GUIDE-Selling-System-Customer-Centric-Retaining/dp/B0F7LFD9QV]. Mike shares how traditional sales tactics often miss the mark by focusing on persuasion rather than understanding. His system encourages salespeople to act as guides, helping customers move from where they are to where they want to be. Mike introduces the idea of using a structured, systems-based approach in sales, inspired by quality practices from other industries. He emphasizes the importance of asking better questions, building trust, and shifting the mindset from selling to guiding. He also talks about “TOPO map”, which focuses on Threats, Obstacles, Problems, and Opportunities as a way to reframe discovery and create more meaningful conversations. The discussion highlights how real change in sales happens not through high-pressure tactics, but through clarity, consistency, and collaboration.

In this episode, Sebastian Karlsson [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sebastiankarlssonatlinkedin/], a Sales Effectiveness Consultant at Membrain [https://www.linkedin.com/company/membraincom/?viewAsMember=true], joins Paul Fuller on the podcast to discuss how small, consistent habits and clear processes can make a big difference in both hitting targets and building confidence.  Seb explains why having a sales process is like having a checklist. It helps teams avoid repeating mistakes, scale beyond just one top performer, and stay focused. He shares a personal story about starting small with fitness and how that idea translates to improving in sales. He also talks about the uncomfortable but powerful habit of watching recordings of his own sales calls. For him, it’s the fastest way to improve. The conversation is all about making progress one step at a time, keeping things human, and learning how to enjoy the process.

In this episode of The Art and Science of Complex Sales, Paul Fuller is joined by Wesleyne Whittaker [https://www.linkedin.com/in/wesleyne/], founder of Transformed Sales [https://www.linkedin.com/company/transformedsales/], a former chemist turned international sales leader. The conversation unpacks what it means to transform sales teams from within, with a sharp focus on leadership accountability, mindset and skill-building, especially in the often-overlooked world of manufacturing and distribution sales. Wesleyne shares her journey from lab work to sales consultancy, revealing how her analytical background shaped a science-meets-art approach to solving sales challenges. She dives into the critical gaps in sales enablement within industrial sectors and shows how curiosity, mindset resilience and coaching cultures drive real performance improvement. With real-world examples including a powerful story of a leader who went from being on a performance plan to earning a spot at President’s Club, this episode challenges traditional views on sales training and emphasizes the deep, human work that goes into transforming a team.