Order Order!

From Pastry to Plaintiffs

In this episode of Order, Order, Terry Wiggins talks to Paul Burgin about a career journey that took him from the pastry kitchens of the House of Commons into the world of legal recruitment. Paul looks back on growing up in Lichfield, studying catering in Birmingham, and moving to London at 17 after a placement at Parliament convinced him that this was where he wanted to be. He reflects on working across several parts of the Commons catering operation, including pastry, the Terrace, Portcullis House, the Brasserie and Milbank, and shares what those years taught him about pressure, discipline, creativity and growing up quickly in a demanding environment. The conversation then follows his move out of catering, first into a corporate dining role and later into recruitment, where he found a completely different kind of career. Paul explains how he made the jump into the legal sector, what legal recruitment actually involves, and how he went on to build Hunters Legal. Along the way, he and Terry discuss mentorship, the hidden depth behind both Parliament and the legal profession, and why finding the right cultural fit matters just as much as technical skill. It is a fascinating story about reinvention, ambition and taking the lessons of one world into another. Order Order podcast, Paul Burgin, Terry Wiggins, House of Commons catering, Parliament kitchens, pastry chef, legal recruitment, Hunters Legal, Terrace kitchen, Milbank, Portcullis House, hospitality careers, chef career change, Westminster catering, legal industry This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit orderorderpodcast.substack.com [https://orderorderpodcast.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Inside the House of Commons Kitchens with Oliver Fox

In this episode of Order, Order, Terry Wiggins sits down with Oliver Fox for a wide-ranging conversation about his journey through the catering world, from college and early restaurant work to the kitchens of the House of Commons. Oliver reflects on joining Parliament after time at Chapter One in Locksbottom, and explains why the Commons felt like a real finishing school for chefs. He talks about the sections he worked in, the skills he learned there, and why that period became such an important foundation for the rest of his career. The conversation also touches on cooking for Betty Boothroyd, memories of working in Westminster, later roles in restaurants and consultancy, and a private-chef job that took him into high-level business dining and international travel. Along the way, Oliver and Terry discuss music, mentorship, hospitality, and how the industry has changed in recent years. They finish by looking at where Oliver’s business is headed now, with a growing focus on weddings, funerals, corporate events, press launches, art gallery launches, christenings and private catering, as well as the pressures facing public-facing hospitality today. Order Order podcast, Oliver Fox, Terry Wiggins, House of Commons catering, Parliament kitchens, Westminster catering, hospitality industry, catering industry, private chef, event catering, Chapter One Locksbottom, Betty Boothroyd, banqueting, chef career, corporate catering, wedding catering This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit orderorderpodcast.substack.com [https://orderorderpodcast.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

From Parliament to Punchlines

In this episode of Order, Order, Terry Wiggins speaks with Harun Musho’d about a career that has travelled from high-volume catering at Wembley Arena through civil service HR, trade union leadership and 18 years inside the UK Parliament. Harun recalls managing fast-food operations for crowds of 11,000, working under National Leisure Catering and Aramark, and supporting fundraising bars for his Scout group. He discusses moving into pay and reward policy at Customs and Excise, his work at the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman, and later HR roles inside Parliament, including involvement in the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority and organisational changes following the expenses scandal. The conversation explores Scouting, kitchen culture, cloakroom traditions at Westminster, and Harun’s experience studying English and Creative Writing, which led him into stand-up comedy. He reflects on gong shows such as The Blackout at Up the Creek, the differences between the London and Glasgow comedy scenes, and his work at the Edinburgh Fringe, where he performs solo shows and co-runs the political panel show Political Breakfast as part of the Free Fringe. Drew Stearne joins the discussion to describe the London circuit, roast battles at the Bill Murray and Angel Comedy Club, and his own route into stand-up. Together they talk about comedy training, open mics, changing audiences, bilingual performance, and representation in the industry. Harun shares how his multicultural family background shapes some of his material and outlines his future plans, including running new comedy clubs across Scotland while continuing consultancy work through Beamans. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit orderorderpodcast.substack.com [https://orderorderpodcast.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Databases, Debates and Dining Rooms: Behind the Scenes at the House of Commons

In this episode of Order, Order, host Terry Wiggins is joined by Aileen Walker OBE to explore a very different side of Westminster: libraries, learning and lunch. Aileen reflects on a career that began in the early 1980s when she left Glasgow for London to join the House of Commons Library, working on the Parliamentary Online Indexing System (POLIS) and learning parliamentary procedure by indexing questions, debates, Acts and committee papers. Aileen explains how the Members’ Library in the Palace of Westminster supports MPs with impartial, authoritative research on everything from housing and transport to education and defence, and how research papers are produced for every bill. She recalls a very different Commons in 1982, with only 19 women MPs, no security passes, officers of the House enjoying privileges, and even informal rules about when women could wear trousers. Moving from the Library into the Public Information Office, the Parliamentary ICT Service and the Education Service, Aileen describes the growing demand from the public for information before the internet, the pressure on telephone lines, and the shift to a more proactive approach to explaining Parliament’s work. She talks about becoming the first Director of Public Engagement, overseeing education, outreach and visitor services jointly for the House of Commons and House of Lords, and the complex stakeholder management needed to keep two Houses and multiple committees on board. Aileen and Terry delve into the evolution of catering across the Westminster estate, from the Strangers’ cafeteria, Westminster Hall cafe and traditional Lords cafeteria with “school dinner” classics like Spotted Dick, to Bellamy’s with stir fries cooked in front of you, and Portcullis House with its street food, curries, jerk chicken and jerk pork. They recall the adjournment as a brasserie-style venue for visitors, barista coffee at the Dispatch Box, and Friday fish and chips traditions. There are vivid stories of Westminster moments: Tony Blair crossing the Portcullis House atrium on his final day as Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher’s last Prime Minister’s Questions, and encounters with speakers from Lord Tonypandy and Bernard Weatherill to Betty Boothroyd, as well as Prime Ministers including Margaret Thatcher, John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and David Cameron. Aileen also shares how Betty Boothroyd championed the early Education Service and helped secure the Boothroyd Room, paving the way for the purpose-built Education Centre that opened in 2015 with dedicated workshops, technology and augmented reality for school groups. The conversation steps outside the kitchen and chamber into Westminster Hall and beyond, with memories of a ceilidh in Westminster Hall, the Parliament Choir performing with the Bundestag Choir to mark the end of the Second World War, and concerts in the Vatican and the Bundestag. Aileen and Terry also touch on MP bands like MP4, interdepartmental five-a-side football tournaments, rowing regattas on the Thames, sponsored swims and Terry’s DJ sets at staff parties. After leaving Parliament in 2016, Aileen describes her work with Global Partners Governance, helping strengthen parliamentary institutions and public engagement in countries such as Sudan, Ukraine, Albania, Armenia, Uzbekistan and Iraq. She reflects on hopeful moments and heartbreaking setbacks, including the collapse into conflict in Sudan, and the satisfaction of tailoring support to local cultures and priorities rather than imposing a model from Westminster. Now back in Glasgow, Aileen talks about a new chapter: semi-retirement, panel work in Scotland’s children’s hearing system, a role on a theatre board for outdoor arts and street theatre, and serving on the council of the Royal Philosophical Society of Glasgow. She and her husband Nick enjoy long-distance walking on routes such as the West Highland Way and the Northumberland Coast Path, and look forward to volunteering at the Commonwealth Games and travelling to Australia to watch the Ashes in Perth, Brisbane and Adelaide. There’s even time for Marvel as she recounts recording the My Mum Missed Marvel podcast with her son during lockdown, and their Christmas plans featuring a Thai cookery course–inspired dinner cooked by her elder son. Throughout, Aileen returns to her central theme: that MPs work hard, Parliament is more than just what you see at Prime Minister’s Questions, and that public engagement, education and even the food served in Westminster all play a part in sustaining a healthy democracy. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit orderorderpodcast.substack.com [https://orderorderpodcast.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

From Parliament to the Pyramids

Classic Commons service meets a new chapter in North Africa, as Luke explains kitchen culture, sourcing, and the realities of reinventing your career abroad. From the heat of Westminster’s Members’ Dining Room to opening a restaurant in New Cairo, chef Luke Fouracre maps an extraordinary journey through kitchens, competitions, and cuisines. Luke recalls training at Westminster Kingsway College with lecturers who had deep House of Commons ties, which helped steer him toward Parliament during a major recruitment drive under Executive Chef Mark Hill. Inside Parliament, Luke spent most of his time in the Members’ Dining Room, covering Strangers’, Portcullis House, the Terrace, and Millbank during recess and overtime. He explains the pace, the division bell, and the need to keep plates hot while MPs voted. He also outlines weekly menu traditions like rib of beef on PMQs Wednesdays, alternating prawn cocktail and smoked salmon starters, and fish and chips on Fridays, while experimenting with techniques that were trending at the time. Competitions were a big part of the culture. Luke remembers Salon Culinaire with a live-kitchen gold medal and winning a Craft Guild of Chefs competition that sent him to New Zealand, encouraged by senior chefs and timed around recess periods. Timeline 10 Timeline 10 Timeline 10 After Parliament, he stepped into hotel brigades at Brooklands and later Fairmont Windsor Park, where he headed 1215, a fine-dining British restaurant linked to Magna Carta. He then moved to the Royal Oak in Holyport, a Michelin-starred pub that reshaped his view of British pub food, and helped open The Bottle & Glass in Henley with a strong game focus and British larder ethos. Suppliers from the Crown Estate informed a seasonal approach before Luke ultimately up-sticks to Cairo. T Now based in New Cairo, Luke runs Osteria restaurant and talks logistics, adaptability, and life outside central Cairo’s chaos. He shares fond memories too, from state openings to bringing his nan for lunch in the Churchill Room, and the camaraderie that defined the Westminster kitchens. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit orderorderpodcast.substack.com [https://orderorderpodcast.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]