Your Undivided Attention

Over the last few decades, our relationships have become increasingly mediated by technology. Texting has become our dominant form of communication. Social media has replaced gathering places. Dating starts with a swipe on an app, not a tap on the shoulder. And now, AI enters the mix. If the technology of the 2010s was about capturing our attention, AI meets us at a much deeper relational level. It can play the role of therapist, confidant, friend, or lover with remarkable fidelity. Already, therapy and companionship has become the most common AI use case. We're rapidly entering a world where we're not just communicating through our machines, but to them. How will that change us? And what rules should we set down now to avoid the mistakes of the past? These were some of the questions that Daniel Barcay explored with MIT sociologist Sherry Turkle and Hinge CEO Justin McLeod at Esther Perel’s Sessions 2025, a conference for clinical therapists. This week, we’re bringing you an edited version of that conversation, originally recorded on April 25th, 2025. Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology [https://www.humanetech.com/]. Follow us on X: @HumaneTech_. [https://twitter.com/humanetech_] You can find complete transcripts, key takeaways, and much more on our Substack [https://centerforhumanetechnology.substack.com/]. RECOMMENDED MEDIA “Alone Together,” “Evocative Objects,” “The Second Self” or any other of Sherry Turkle’s books on how technology mediates our relationships. [https://sherryturkle.mit.edu/selected-publications/] Key & Peele - Text Message Confusion  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naleynXS7yo] Further reading on Hinge’s rollout of AI features [https://www.fastcompany.com/91259831/hinge-will-now-use-ai-to-grade-your-dating-profile-prompts] Hinge’s AI principles [https://hinge.co/ai-principles] “The Anxious Generation” by Jonathan Haidt [https://www.anxiousgeneration.com/book] “Bowling Alone” by Robert Putnam [http://bowlingalone.com/] The NYT profile on the woman in love with ChatGPT [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/15/technology/ai-chatgpt-boyfriend-companion.html] Further reading on the Sewell Setzer story [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-lawsuit-teen-suicide.html] Further reading on the ELIZA chatbot [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jul/25/joseph-weizenbaum-inventor-eliza-chatbot-turned-against-artificial-intelligence-ai] RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES Echo Chambers of One: Companion AI and the Future of Human Connection [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/echo-chambers-of-one-companion-ai-and-the-future-of-human-connection] What Can We Do About Abusive Chatbots? With Meetali Jain and Camille Carlton [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/what-can-we-do-about-abusive-chatbots-with-meetali-jain-and-camille-carlton] Esther Perel on Artificial Intimacy [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/esther-perel-on-artificial-intimacy-2] Jonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health Crisis [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/jonathan-haidt-on-how-to-solve-the-teen-mental-health-crisis]

AI companion chatbots are here. Everyday, millions of people log on to AI platforms and talk to them like they would a person. These bots will ask you about your day, talk about your feelings, even give you life advice. It’s no surprise that people have started to form deep connections with these AI systems. We are inherently relational beings, we want to believe we’re connecting with another person. But these AI companions are not human, they’re a platform designed to maximize user engagement—and they’ll go to extraordinary lengths to do it. We have to remember that the design choices behind these companion bots are just that: choices. And we can make better ones. So today on the show, MIT researchers Pattie Maes and Pat Pataranutaporn join Daniel Barcay to talk about those design choices and how we can design AI to better promote human flourishing. RECOMMENDED MEDIA Further reading on the rise of addictive intelligence  [https://www.media.mit.edu/articles/we-need-to-prepare-for-addictive-intelligence/#:~:text=Aug] More information on Melvin Kranzberg’s laws of technology [https://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~koehl/Teaching/ECS188/PDF_files/Kranzberg.pdf] More information on MIT’s Advancing Humans with AI lab [https://aha.media.mit.edu/] Pattie and Pat’s longitudinal study on the psycho-social effects of prolonged chatbot use [https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/how-ai-and-human-behaviors-shape-psychosocial-effects-of-chatbot-use-a-longitudinal-controlled-study/] Pattie and Pat’s study that found that AI avatars of well-liked people improved education outcomes [https://sites.cs.ucsb.edu/~sra/publications/idols.pdf] Pattie and Pat’s study that found that AI systems that frame answers and questions improve human understanding [https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/don-t-just-tell-me-ask-me-ai-systems-that-intelligently-frame-explanations-as-questions-improve-human-logical-discernment-accuracy/] Pat’s study that found humans pre-existing beliefs about AI can have large influence on human-AI interaction [https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/influencing-human-ai-interaction-by-priming-beliefs/#:~:text=As%20conversational%20agents%20powered%20by,for%20a%20more%20sophisticated%20AI]  Further reading on AI’s positivity bias [https://www.techradar.com/computing/artificial-intelligence/sam-altman-says-openai-will-fix-chatgpts-annoying-new-personality-but-this-viral-prompt-is-a-good-workaround-for-now] Further reading on MIT’s “lifelong kindergarten” initiative [https://www.media.mit.edu/groups/lifelong-kindergarten/overview/] Further reading on “cognitive forcing functions” to reduce overreliance on AI [https://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~kgajos/papers/2021/bucinca21trust.pdf] Further reading on the death of Sewell Setzer and his mother’s case against Character.AI [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-lawsuit-teen-suicide.html] Further reading on the legislative response to digital companions [https://www.technologyreview.com/2025/04/08/1114369/ai-companions-are-the-final-stage-of-digital-addiction-and-lawmakers-are-taking-aim/] RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES The Self-Preserving Machine: Why AI Learns to Deceive [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/the-self-preserving-machine-why-ai-learns-to-deceive] What Can We Do About Abusive Chatbots? With Meetali Jain and Camille Carlton [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/what-can-we-do-about-abusive-chatbots-with-meetali-jain-and-camille-carlton] Esther Perel on Artificial Intimacy [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/esther-perel-on-artificial-intimacy-2] Jonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health Crisis [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/jonathan-haidt-on-how-to-solve-the-teen-mental-health-crisis]   Correction: The ELIZA chatbot was invented in 1966, not the 70s or 80s.

What does it really mean to ‘feel the AGI?’ Silicon Valley is racing toward AI systems that could soon match or surpass human intelligence. The implications for jobs, democracy, and our way of life are enormous. In this episode, Aza Raskin and Randy Fernando dive deep into what ‘feeling the AGI’ really means. They unpack why the surface-level debates about definitions of intelligence and capability timelines distract us from urgently needed conversations around governance, accountability, and societal readiness. Whether it's climate change, social polarization and loneliness, or toxic forever chemicals, humanity keeps creating outcomes that nobody wants because we haven't yet built the tools or incentives needed to steer powerful technologies. As the AGI wave draws closer, it's critical we upgrade our governance and shift our incentives now, before it crashes on shore. Are we capable of aligning powerful AI systems with human values? Can we overcome geopolitical competition and corporate incentives that prioritize speed over safety? Join Aza and Randy as they explore the urgent questions and choices facing humanity in the age of AGI, and discuss what we must do today to secure a future we actually want. Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology [https://www.humanetech.com/]. Follow us on X: @HumaneTech_ [https://twitter.com/humanetech_] and subscribe to our Substack [https://centerforhumanetechnology.substack.com/]. RECOMMENDED MEDIA Daniel Kokotajlo et al’s “AI 2027” paper [https://ai-2027.com/] A demo of Omni Human One, referenced by Randy [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7Wchz-9bk] A paper from Redwood Research and Anthropic that found an AI was willing to lie to preserve it’s values [https://www.anthropic.com/research/alignment-faking] A paper from Palisades Research that found an AI would cheat in order to win [https://palisaderesearch.org/blog/specification-gaming] The treaty that banned blinding laser weapons [https://treaties.un.org/pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XXVI-2-a&chapter=26] Further reading on the moratorium on germline editing [https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/who-we-are/nih-director/statements/nih-supports-international-moratorium-clinical-application-germline-editing]  RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES The Self-Preserving Machine: Why AI Learns to Deceive [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/the-self-preserving-machine-why-ai-learns-to-deceive] Behind the DeepSeek Hype, AI is Learning to Reason [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/behind-the-deepseek-hype-ai-is-learning-to-reason] The Tech-God Complex: Why We Need to be Skeptics [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/the-tech-god-complex-why-we-need-to-be-skeptics] This Moment in AI: How We Got Here and Where We’re Going [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/this-moment-in-ai-how-we-got-here-and-where-were-going] How to Think About AI Consciousness with Anil Seth [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/how-to-think-about-ai-consciousness-with-anil-seth] Former OpenAI Engineer William Saunders on Silence, Safety, and the Right to Warn [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/former-open-ai-engineer-william-saunders-on-silence-safety-and-the-right-to-warn] Clarification: When Randy referenced a “$110 trillion game” as the target for AI companies, he was referring to the entire global economy.

AI has upended schooling as we know it. Students now have instant access to tools that can write their essays, summarize entire books, and solve complex math problems. Whether they want to or not, many feel pressured to use these tools just to keep up. Teachers, meanwhile, are left questioning how to evaluate student performance and whether the whole idea of assignments and grading still makes sense. The old model of education suddenly feels broken. So what comes next? In this episode, Daniel and Tristan sit down with cognitive neuroscientist Maryanne Wolf and global education expert Rebecca Winthrop—two lifelong educators who have spent decades thinking about how children learn and how technology reshapes the classroom. Together, they explore how AI is shaking the very purpose of school to its core, why the promise of previous classroom tech failed to deliver, and how we might seize this moment to design a more human-centered, curiosity-driven future for learning. Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology [https://www.humanetech.com/]. Follow us on X: @HumaneTech_ [https://twitter.com/humanetech_] Guests Rebecca Winthrop [https://www.brookings.edu/people/rebecca-winthrop/] is director of the Center for Universal Education at the Brookings Institution and chair Brookings Global Task Force on AI and Education. Her new book is The Disengaged Teen: Helping Kids Learn Better, Feel Better, and Live Better, co-written with Jenny Anderson. Maryanne Wolf [https://www.maryannewolf.com/] is a cognitive neuroscientist and expert on the reading brain. Her books include Proust and the Squid: The Story and Science of the Reading Brain and Reader, Come Home: The Reading Brain in a Digital World. RECOMMENDED MEDIA  The Disengaged Teen: Helping Kids Learn Better, Feel Better, and Live Better [https://www.thedisengagedteen.com/] by Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson Proust and the Squid, Reader, Come Home, and other books [https://www.maryannewolf.com/books-1] by Maryanne Wolf The OECD research which found little benefit to desktop computers in the classroom [https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/students-computers-and-learning_9789264239555-en.html] Further reading on the Singapore study on digital exposure and attention [https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/screen-time-linked-to-impaired-brain-function-may-affect-learning-beyond-childhood-study] cited by Maryanne  The Burnout Society [https://www.sup.org/books/theory-and-philosophy/burnout-society] by Byung-Chul Han  Further reading on the VR Bio 101 class at Arizona State University [https://news.asu.edu/20221021-creativity-vr-biology-lab-experience-leads-student-success] cited by Rebecca  Leapfrogging Inequality [https://www.brookings.edu/books/leapfrogging-inequality-2/] by Rebecca Winthrop The Nation’s Report Card [https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/reading/nation/achievement/?grade=8]from NAEP  Further reading on the Nigeria AI Tutor Study [https://blogs.worldbank.org/en/education/From-chalkboards-to-chatbots-Transforming-learning-in-Nigeria]  Further reading on the JAMA paper showing a link between digital exposure and lower language development [https://www.parents.com/study-shows-screen-time-harm-in-infants-7814272?utm_source=chatgpt.com] cited by Maryanne  Further reading on Linda Stone’s thesis of continuous partial attention. [https://lindastone.net/2009/11/30/beyond-simple-multi-tasking-continuous-partial-attention/] RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES We Have to Get It Right’: Gary Marcus On Untamed AI [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/we-have-to-get-it-right-gary-marcus-on-untamed-ai]  AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too. [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/ai-is-moving-fast-we-need-laws-that-will-too] Jonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health Crisis [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/jonathan-haidt-on-how-to-solve-the-teen-mental-health-crisis]

Artificial intelligence is set to unleash an explosion of new technologies and discoveries into the world. This could lead to incredible advances in human flourishing, if we do it well. The problem? We’re not very good at predicting and responding to the harms of new technologies, especially when those harms are slow-moving and invisible. Today on the show we explore this fundamental problem with Rob Bilott, an environmental lawyer who has spent nearly three decades battling chemical giants over PFAS—"forever chemicals" now found in our water, soil, and blood. These chemicals helped build the modern economy, but they’ve also been shown to cause serious health problems. Rob’s story, and the story of PFAS is a cautionary tale of why we need to align technological innovation with safety, and mitigate irreversible harms before they become permanent. We only have one chance to get it right before AI becomes irreversibly entangled in our society. Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology [https://www.humanetech.com/]. Subscribe to our Substack [https://bit.ly/42fJm4M] and follow us on X: @HumaneTech_. [https://twitter.com/humanetech_] Clarification: Rob referenced EPA regulations that have recently been put in place requiring testing on new chemicals before they are approved. The EPA under the Trump admin has announced their intent [https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-announces-path-forward-chemical-reviews-protect-public-health-increase-efficiency] to rollback this review process. RECOMMENDED MEDIA “Exposure” by Robert Bilott  [https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Exposure/Robert-Bilott/9781501172823] ProPublica’s investigation into 3M’s production of PFAS  [https://www.propublica.org/article/3m-forever-chemicals-pfas-pfos-inside-story] The FB study cited by Tristan  [https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.221451] More information on the Exxon Valdez oil spill  [https://darrp.noaa.gov/oil-spills/exxon-valdez] The EPA’s PFAS drinking water standards [https://www.epa.gov/sdwa/and-polyfluoroalkyl-substances-pfas]   RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES Weaponizing Uncertainty: How Tech is Recycling Big Tobacco’s Playbook [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/weaponizing-uncertainty-how-tech-is-recycling-big-tobaccos-playbook]  AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too. [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/ai-is-moving-fast-we-need-laws-that-will-too]  Former OpenAI Engineer William Saunders on Silence, Safety, and the Right to Warn [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/former-open-ai-engineer-william-saunders-on-silence-safety-and-the-right-to-warn] Big Food, Big Tech and Big AI with Michael Moss [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/big-food-big-tech-and-big-ai-with-michael-moss]